Could you perform your current role on a Squier Bass ?

[4000]

57 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

Im not being snobbish about Squiers at all - in fact I actually like them and think they're good value (not as good as the latest SBMM Sub though 😀) - but the idea that the differentiators between the tone, playability and sustain of those and a very expensive bass with complex tone woods, construction and electronics, in the hands of a skilled player will simply be lost in a mix frankly suggests those suggesting there isn't either have low standards and expectations or indeed cloth ears!!

Or we'd all be using Rickenbackers..... as they'd make no difference either - btw I like them as well 

Sorry, but some of the least musical basses I’ve ever played have been very expensive with complex tonewoods etc. All of the Foderas I’ve played bar one I thought were, quite frankly, awful. Same goes for all the F Basses I’ve played. And Sadowskys too, for what it’s worth. I wouldn’t have given tuppence for any of them. And I certainly don’t have cloth ears. 

[stingrayPete1977]

14 minutes ago, 4000 said:

Sorry, but some of the least musical basses I’ve ever played have been very expensive with complex tonewoods etc. All of the Foderas I’ve played bar one I thought were, quite frankly, awful. Same goes for all the F Basses I’ve played. And Sadowskys too, for what it’s worth. I wouldn’t have given tuppence for any of them. And I certainly don’t have cloth ears. 

I agree with this, in some cases it might be expensive and well built but made for a specific purpose like a motown gig P bass with flats, that's not going to be great for a modern metal band but it's not a bad bass as such. 

[4000]

In 37 years I’ve played a good number of expensive instruments that are “dead” and a good number of cheap basses that are “alive”. And of course vice versa; it’s down to the individual instrument. 

Although it’s the zombie basses you really need to watch out for. 

[Woodinblack]

3 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

Also I am surprised at how many people who play 5-string seem now to be addicted to the lowest string and incapable of playing without it. If it came to borrowing a 4 string or cancelling a gig, would you cancel??? 

Can you point to anyone who said they were "addicted to the lowest string and incapable of playing without it"?  Thought not, but I wouldn't want to spoil your fun in you having your own arguments!

The question was 'can you play what you are playing on a squier', to which I answered, that I could do but I wouldn't want to. Of course I can play it on a 4 string. With a bit of thought most songs you could play on a 2 or 1 string. Would you want to? no, I would want to play it on a 5 string. Could I play it on a squier 5 string, yes I could but it would unpleasant and uncomfortable as they only have wide string spacing, so I would rather play it on a proper bass. 

 

 

[ianrendall]

2 hours ago, 4000 said:

Sorry, but some of the least musical basses I’ve ever played have been very expensive with complex tonewoods etc. All of the Foderas I’ve played bar one I thought were, quite frankly, awful. Same goes for all the F Basses I’ve played. And Sadowskys too, for what it’s worth. I wouldn’t have given tuppence for any of them. And I certainly don’t have cloth ears. 

I agree with this lots. There is as much a need for high end basses to exist as tools for their intended purpose to play music as there is for Ferarri, Bugatti or Pagani to exist to take you from A to B. But nobody buys these high end items as a tool. They buy them because they like to show off. IMO. 

[paul_c2]

8 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Can you point to anyone who said they were "addicted to the lowest string and incapable of playing without it"?  Thought not, but I wouldn't want to spoil your fun in you having your own arguments!

 

 

I went back through the thread and counted 5 who said "no" to the question "could you perform your current role on a Squier bass?" due to range.

[Deedee]

I could and indeed have on occasion used Squier basses for gigs.  My VM P Bass is the back up I take to most gigs.  I usually choose to use one of my other basses, but there’s no real reason for that other than thinking I might as well.  If I’m playing somewhere where I’m particularly concerned about security etc, I certainly wouldn’t have any reason to hesitate about playing it.

[drTStingray]

2 hours ago, 4000 said:

Sorry, but some of the least musical basses I’ve ever played have been very expensive with complex tonewoods etc. All of the Foderas I’ve played bar one I thought were, quite frankly, awful. Same goes for all the F Basses I’ve played. And Sadowskys too, for what it’s worth. I wouldn’t have given tuppence for any of them. And I certainly don’t have cloth ears. 

Sorry but I simply don't believe this - are you sure it was the basses? (I'll accept the lack of cloth ears - though I've played with plenty of half deaf guitarists and drummers in my time so I'm not but sure why bassists are exempt - even CLF himself was half deaf i understand).

Ah well - when we're all playing Squiers in a few years....... no doubt that's all that'll be left in production or worthy of playing when this viewpoint extends everywhere. 

Reminds me of the days we all drove Moskovitch and Trabants - because the powers that be thought they were perfectly adequate to get from A to B and everything else was an extravagant, decadent irrelevance - we're just showing off in our unnecessary Audis and Mercedes these days - after all who needs aircon, ABS etc etc - it's all irrelevant 😂😂

Edited March 28, 2018 by drTStingray

[Woodinblack]

37 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

I went back through the thread and counted 5 who said "no" to the question "could you perform your current role on a Squier bass?" due to range.

And of those 5 who said they were "addicted to the lowest string and incapable of playing without it"?

[Woodinblack]

32 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

Ah well - when we're all playing Squiers in a few years....... 

We will, because it will be all 'Oh you know those 10's squiers were the best tone, really sought after now'. 

 

32 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

Reminds me of the days we all drove Moskovitch and Trabants - because the powers that be thought they were perfectly adequate to get from A to B and everything else was an extravagant, decadent irrelevance - we're just showing off in our unnecessary Audis and Mercedes these days - after all who needs aircon, ABS etc etc - it's all irrelevant 😂😂

Indeed - that is why noone made any music before the 80s!

[Al Krow]

56 minutes ago, ianrendall said:

There is as much a need for high end basses to exist as tools for their intended purpose to play music as there is for Ferarri, Bugatti or Pagani to exist to take you from A to B. But nobody buys these high end items as a tool. They buy them because they like to show off. IMO. 

ALL performance is 'showing off'.  None of us gets on stage because we are overcome by a desire to be modest.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Al Krow

[peteb]

4 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

I would be interested to hear, as I’m sure the guys in Brooklyn would, as to how their product didn’t satisfy you. Are you sure some of your dislike isn’t down to personal preference rather than the instruments being deficient in areas where they should have excelled? All the Fodera’s I have played have been exceptional.

I could never see myself buying one, even if I had the money (something like a Sadowsky would be more suitable for my needs) but certainly the best bass that I have ever played was a Fodera. 

[josie]

I could, if I were a better technical player, play everything on a 4 that I do on a 5. But it would be a lot harder and I'm not that good yet.

I had the privilege 10 days ago of talking to Constance Redgrave from the Spikedrivers, a fine professional bass player of many years experience. She confirmed that her 4 is strung B E A D for the same reasons I value my 5 - for example anything in E (which I spend a lot of time in) is far easier rooted on the 5th fret of the B than on the open E.

That of course is not an argument against a Squier 5.

As for "high end", or "bedroom coffee-table", or whatever - I'm not sure my beloved GMR counts - she's a bespoke bass (3rd hand to me), and her build and tone quality are stunning, but not a big name, so not a big price tag for the quality. But she's just felt right from the moment I picked her up looking for my first bass, like a detachable body part, and she has a lyrical melodic sustained tone that has not only shaped how I play now, but kept me learning to play through the first difficult frustrating year when it was just all too hard and I wanted to give up, but she was just too perfect and beautiful and made me keep trying.

So - to answer the OP - from where I am now, yes most of the time I could play a Squier, but if I had started with one as my first bass, I would have given up, and my current role would still be what it was for most of my life, sitting in the audience crying because i wanted to play bass and I couldn't.

[Painy]

My number one is a Squier VM P5.

The only bass I've ever owned that cost less to buy new is the Harley Benton that lives under the bed.

It is my number one for no reason other than it is by far my favorite bass that I have owned (which includes basses that cost several thousand pounds).

Everything about the look, feel and sound is just perfect - for me.

I COULD perform my current role on something OTHER THAN a Squier bass. I just wouldn't choose to (as my main bass at any rate - I also use a Gibson EB13 and a Fender Jazz at gigs but only for a few songs each. The Squier gets the nod for about 3/4 of the set).

All subjective though innit!

[ianrendall]

21 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

ALL performance is 'showing off'.  None of us gets on stage because we are overcome by a desire to be modest.

Of course, from purely a musical point of view.

But I was angling toward the ‘look-at-my-multi-thousand-pound-bass smug face loadsa money’ kind of showing off, which I will probably now get slated for. Deservedly so probably because I’m just a jealous old bstard.

Edited March 28, 2018 by ianrendall

[Al Krow]

4 minutes ago, ianrendall said:

Of course, from purely a musical point of view.

But I was angling toward the ‘look-at-my-multi-thousand-pound-bass smug face loadsa money’ kind of showing off, which I will probably now get slated for. Deservedly so probably because I’m just a jealous old bstard.

I really don't think showing off their wealth is the motivation for most bass players to get fantastic basses. And frankly even a high end bass is not expensive by many other instrument standards (e.g. a high end violin). 

Besides, other than fellow bass players most folk in the audience (or even band-mates unless you told them) would have no idea what the thing costs and that e.g. a new German made Warwick can be up to 5+ times the cost of an identical looking Warwick Rockbass, or whether they had got a high end bass new or second hand etc. 

Now if the bassist turned up to the gig in a Ferrari well, yes, that would be a different matter  

[josie]

9 minutes ago, ianrendall said:

Of course, from purely a musical point of view.

But I was angling toward the ‘look-at-my-multi-thousand-pound-bass smug face loadsa money’ kind of showing off, which I will probably now get slated for. Deservedly so probably because I’m just a jealous old bstard.

Ages ago I started a thread where I wondered why so many guitar players have lots of guitars clearly visible on stage - and don't even always use all of them - and bass players almost never have more than one - and if they do have a second it's not on show at the front of the stage. Agreement was some of us do have a spare ready to hand, or maybe one is in a different tuning - but we don't seem to flaunt it.

Personally I much prefer to be at the back or side and inconspicuous. As long as the audience can hear me, they don't need to see me. Imho, ymmv &c...

(And if I did gig an obviously expensive bass, I'd just be asking to be hit on the head walking back from the gig :-( 

[ianrendall]

5 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I really don't think showing off their wealth is the motivation for most bass players to get fantastic basses. And frankly even a high end bass is not expensive by many other instrument standards (e.g. a high end violin). 

Besides, other than fellow bass players most folk in the audience (or even band-mates unless you told them) would have no idea what the thing costs and that e.g. a new German made Warwick can be up to 5+ times the cost of an identical looking Warwick Rockbass, or whether they had got a high end bass new or second hand etc. 

Now if the bassist turned up to the gig in a Ferrari well, yes, that would be a different matter  

A fair reasoning indeed. 

I’ve just always had a real bee in my bonnet in general about rich a$$hats that use money as a bragging right. 

I don’t have a Ferarri. I have a Fiat 500 and it’s a piece of stinky poo. 

[discreet]

4 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I really don't think showing off their wealth is the motivation for most bass players to get fantastic basses.

You're right. Punters won't know - they can't tell the difference between a bass guitar and s banjo. So that leaves other bass players and of course nobody cares what they think. 

'Knowledgeable' non-bass players regard Fender as the best you can get, so will look at your £4k Sadowsky and shake their heads sadly, thinking it to be a cheap copy. Har! Har!

[discreet]

5 minutes ago, ianrendall said:

I don’t have a Ferarri. I have a Fiat 500 and it’s a piece of stinky poo. 

Erm... obviously you mean 'iconic example of Italian automotive history'.

[ianrendall]

3 minutes ago, discreet said:

Erm... obviously you mean 'iconic example of Italian automotive history'.

It’s a leaf blower. 

[peteb]

29 minutes ago, josie said:

Ages ago I started a thread where I wondered why so many guitar players have lots of guitars clearly visible on stage - and don't even always use all of them - and bass players almost never have more than one - and if they do have a second it's not on show at the front of the stage. Agreement was some of us do have a spare ready to hand, or maybe one is in a different tuning - but we don't seem to flaunt it.

Personally I much prefer to be at the back or side and inconspicuous. As long as the audience can hear me, they don't need to see me. Imho, ymmv &c...

(And if I did gig an obviously expensive bass, I'd just be asking to be hit on the head walking back from the gig :-( 

I think that answer to your earlier question is that guitarists are much more likely to break strings and maybe occasionally justified in using a different guitar for different songs! I usually take a spare bass to the gig, but it stays in a gigbag at the back where it is out of the way unless it's needed. 

You do realise that bass players don't HAVE to stay at the back don't you (depending on the gig of course)??

[lojo]

1 hour ago, josie said:

So - to answer the OP - from where I am now, yes most of the time I could play a Squier, but if I had started with one as my first bass, I would have given up

Without dismissing this as untrue (I'm sure it's true to you) I find this one of the most interesting comments of the thread 

I can't believe I'm alone in saying that the first 2 or 3 basses I owned where way below the quality of modern squier and at the time where more than adequate 

 

[drTStingray]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Indeed - that is why noone made any music before the 80s!

We had rock music and especially the Beatles but it was underground - but was that left handed violin shaped instrument Paul McCartney played a Squier then? 

When Elton John came in the 80s his song Nikita had Fretless bass - Musicman? Not a Squier either. 

[discreet]

1 hour ago, josie said:

...I could play a Squier, but if I had started with one as my first bass, I would have given up...

Why do you say that? Is a Squier really that different to your current bass as to make it unplayable?