Line array PA for band use

[Steve Browning]

I played at a venue with an RCF line array system the other day and was hugely impressed with the vocal sound (also a bit of guitar and keys going through).

Has anyone any experience of such a PA for full band? I'm not talking huge amounts of bass/kick but maybe a little reinforcement at venues now and again? I really like the apparent portability and ease of setting up - not to mention the smaller footprint in the back of the van and the fact that the PA won't cause hassles with siting the lighting.

[Ben Jamin]

If you're looking for a compact PA that's reliable and quick to setup - check out HK Audio Elements.

Probably the closest you'll get to a mini line-array (that functions properly at that size)!

We have two E835 tops and two E110 AS subs with the adjustable pole connectors and they work great.

The dispersion from the E835 is just amazing.

We have a bigger rig where we double up on the subs and it sounds massive.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Ben Jamin

[JapanAxe]

Depends what you mean by 'full band'!

I used a Bose L1 Model 2 system just for 2 vocalists in a 3-piece country band. Drums were unamplified, electric guitar and bass used their own backline. This was not a loud band, so it worked.

I then joined a 4-piece country band, where everybody sings, and the lead singer plays electro-acoustic via a combo plus a bit of PA reinforcement. When the band heard my Bose system they wanted me to bring it all the time, but they eventually went back to a boxes-on-poles setup. I think that was too much for the Bose, which was originally conceived of as a 1-per-player setup!

[Happy Jack]

Which RCF line array system are you talking about, Steve? The only stuff I could find with a quick Google was major-league big-bucks stuff.

At the LBGS yesterday I was well impressed with the Mark Audio kit, the Ergo and the Audio Chain.

If you're really lucky, someone will be along in a minute to tell you all about FRFR systems ...

 

[Steve Browning]

3 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

Which RCF line array system are you talking about, Steve? The only stuff I could find with a quick Google was major-league big-bucks stuff.

At the LBGS yesterday I was well impressed with the Mark Audio kit, the Ergo and the Audio Chain.

If you're really lucky, someone will be along in a minute to tell you all about FRFR systems ...

 

Something like this:

http://www.rcf.it/professional-speaker-systems/evox/evox-8

This is the system the venue had.

[EBS_freak]

23 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

Something like this:

http://www.rcf.it/professional-speaker-systems/evox/evox-8

This is the system the venue had.

It all comes down to the size of venue and the volume that you require. Arrays are visually pleasing and that in itself can have a huge appeal. Personally though, pound for pound, traditional boxes still work for small scale better than these mini array systems. It depends what you are going for though. The portability is certainly a big plus of these array systems.

If you want some really tidy portable array systems that have comparable performance to the bigger box stuff, you probably need to up your system to something from the NX range. Like everything, all of these products are designed for a specific market - and mini arrays I think are for those that need to ensure portable systems that are visually more "pretty".

[Happy Jack]

OK, found that now. It's pitched directly against the Ergo I mentioned, but Thomann seem to have slashed the price and they're selling these for just £836 each (they're usually about £1100).

Looks like a very good rig and will de-clutter the stage nicely. You could put that up against the RCF ART735-A and the QSC 12.2 which get plenty of mentions elsewhere on Basschat (not to mention the Barefaced FR800), and balance ease of set-up (no PA poles, no heavy lifting, no cables strung about at head height) with claims about sound quality and absolute volume.

If you're not too budget-conscious, also check out the Evox J8's big brother, the Evox 12.

I'm still inclined towards the Mark Audio stuff because it does what the Evox does and also has a dedicated input & matching controls for your bass (or keys). In a pub rock set-up that opens up a lot of possibilities.

[EBS_freak]

4 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

Looks like a very good rig and will de-clutter the stage nicely. You could put that up against the RCF ART735-A and the QSC 12.2 which get plenty of mentions elsewhere on Basschat (not to mention the Barefaced FR800), and balance ease of set-up (no PA poles, no heavy lifting, no cables strung about at head height) with claims about sound quality and absolute volume.

I for one would defo take a pair of 735 over a set of evox.

[Happy Jack]

Why does that not surprise me?

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, Happy Jack said:

Why does that not surprise me?

It shouldn't surprise you - because the 735s kick crap out of the evox for sound quality and output.

Portability and look is a completely different thing.

The thing is, I'm not a fan boi of the 735 and 745 like people may think. They are just great cabs.The reality is, those cabs have drivers in them that really shouldn't be in a cab made out of plastic, or at that price point. It's like shoehorning a Ferrari engine into a Fiesta. That is why they are so performant and streets ahead of what the other manufacturers are offering at the same price point.

[Happy Jack]

Oh I get all that, mate! But I'm now drifting away from the whole big-box-high-up-on-a-stand-and-getting-in-everyone's-way thing. And this is just three months after buying a pair of ART 322-As. 

I play too many venues where the playing area is way too small for that to be a happy solution - think Tickled Trout, yeah? Of course we can use the 322s and we do, but they routinely block out at least a quarter of the playing area and leave the band peering through the gap between them.

And I somehow manage to get older every single year. Each 322 weighs 51lbs and is a bloody awkward lump, but it has to be raised either 5' onto a lightweight pole or 3' onto a heavy pole with a crank to lift it higher. Each year I find that just a little bit harder.

Those 735s you mention are bloody wonderful. I stand second to no one in my admiration of them. But they each weigh 48lbs. F*** that for a game of soldiers.

And it's not as if the punters will ever notice. 

Before I bought the 322s we spent 10 years using passive 1x12 McGregor tops and ... erm ... that's it.

Since the massive upgrade to the 322s the number of comments we have received on our improved PA sound is exactly zero.

If I now move to a line array system, at enormous expense, I won't be doing it because we'll sound better, or get better gigs, or get more gigs. I'll be doing it because I want to. And because I can! 

Edited March 11, 2018 by Happy Jack

[Tubster]

Hooray......if it works for you, then the EVOX is your answer. Another thought, can the band adapt to the volume the EVOX is comfortable putting out? Bet it can. Would love to use a pair. Light, easy load and quick set up/strike. Enjoy!

[mike257]

These aren't line arrays. The term has somehow slipped in because it makes for sexy marketing, but it actually describes a very specific way of boxes/drivers interacting that even the "big boy" systems only really start to do when you couple about 8 boxes in a hang. 

I've yet to hear one of these column systems sound as weighty and convincing as a traditional "subs with mid/hi boxes" set up in a live band situation. Great for little acoustic gigs, but wouldn't take one for a band. 

[EBS_freak]

2 minutes ago, mike257 said:

These aren't line arrays. The term has somehow slipped in because it makes for sexy marketing, but it actually describes a very specific way of boxes/drivers interacting that even the "big boy" systems only really start to do when you couple about 8 boxes in a hang. 

I've yet to hear one of these column systems sound as weighty and convincing as a traditional "subs with mid/hi boxes" set up in a live band situation. Great for little acoustic gigs, but wouldn't take one for a band. 

Pretty much.

mind you, it's not the sound aspect (or not) as to why these systems sell. They look prettier in wedding photos. They are portable - and for a lot of people - good enough.

[Happy Jack]

Baffling. An array of speakers arranged in a line is somehow not a linear array.

Use of English is over-rated anyway.

[stevie]

So is a line manager an array of managers arranged in a line?

I've noticed some manufacturers using the "line array" term when referring to a cab with two drivers on top of each other. It's all about pulling the wool over the punter's eyes.

Edited March 13, 2018 by stevie

[Tradfusion]

Very interesting thread. We have just dissolved a band where I owned half the PA, conventional powered EV tops etc... the old rig has now been sold and I am looking at buying something neat and tidy of my own mostly to use with a little 3 pce pub covers band, bass, drums, electric guitar and 2x vocals... most of the places we play are small so we dont need a big loud rig, the drums wont be mic'd and the bass and electric guitar will just use their own amps so the PA is really just for vocals and occasionally an acoustic guitar... The whole line array/column thing looks very appealing... I've lost count of the number of times punters (drunk and sober) have tripped over the normal PA stands and almost landed in on top of us!

I sometimes dep with a band who use the RCF EVOX 8 system mentioned earlier, its a fairly loud 4 pce and the EVOX 8 works brilliantly but its not cheap and the bin weighs over 20kg... I'm looking for something much lighter and cheaper to be honest... years of lifting heavy PA cabs onto poles has taken its toll on my 52 year old back so the lighter the better these days... there is no shortage of stuff available but its hard to strike a balance between the specs of the unit and the price... in my trawling I came across this unit by ANT who are a fairly new kid on the block but when I checked them out they are part of the larger RCF group which is a positive because I like RCF stuff... https://www.thomann.de/ie/ant_b_twig_8.htm

I like the price and the weight and the specs seem pretty decent... its 500w RMS which is a bit more than most of the other column systems in that price range so it might just keep up with the drums, hard to know how it would perform without trying it I suppose but I was wondering if anyone else on here has used this unit or something very similar with a drummer and managed to get by?

[Kevsy71]

For a home cinema, music listening room or studio; with a static, seated audience and careful acoustic treatment; I would absolutely go to town applying the scientifically-correct sound reinforcement solution. Because in that environment, the variables are minimised, and the results can be more fully appreciated.

But at the Dog and Duck, with a packed car park in the rain, an L-shaped-low-ceiling- room-with-a-bar-and-ante-rooms-and-windows-and-glass-conservatory, packed* with standing, moving, 'refreshed' and loud-talking punters?  Then the goalposts move. If I can hear clear vocals and distinguish the instruments from the busy parts of the room then I'm happy: and if that can be achieved with a more portable set up with less trip hazards, less power strips and less footprint then that setup wins.

Sadly we're not generating anything near-enough the gig income to switch, so it's teetering PA tops for the foreseeable. Mind those stand legs!

* anything more than three, including dogs