Minimum size amp for gigging?

[ButteryBiscuitBass]

Hi All,

Was wondering what people would say is the MINIMUM wattage amp for gigging? 

By gigging I mean playing in small venues (e.g. pubs).

Many thanks.

[Al Krow]

I have a 500W D class combo. For pub gigs typically I have it set with Gain on 4/12 and Master vol on 6/12 so it's barely breaking into a sweat. So you could certainly get away with a lower powered amp.

Some points to bear in mind:

a) you need 10x watts to get twice the volume (other things being equal), so if I'm only needing to go half as loud (say) as my rig is capable of for a pub gig, then in theory you could get away with a 50W amp BUT...

b) a 50W amp being pushed really hard / flat out is generally not going to sounding its best!

c) it also depends on good (= efficient) your speakers are.

To give yourself a decent amount of 'headroom' I'd recommend something in the 200W to 300W range for pub gigs with a D class amp and with a decent cab to go with it.

For some reason valve amps have a reputation for being louder at any given wattage, but I've certainly not got my head around the science behind why that should be so!   

Valve amps with the same wattage are both heavier and do sound louder than solid state / class D amps (see later post below).

PS welcome to Basschat! 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Al Krow
I've now understood why valve amps are louder at the same watts :)

[Lozz196]

Well a lot can depend on make, if you get an old Trace Elliot or Peavey 1x15 or 2x10 combo then 150/200 watts will be easily enough. I usually go for having 300 watts available and not needing them all, rather than pushing an amp to its limit. That said in my youth when I couldn`t afford the bigger amps I pushed my 100/150 watt amps to their limits all  the time and I never had a problem with any of them.

[Horrorhiker]

Hello! Bit of an old chestnut with many different answers depending on a lot of things. What genre of music it is, how loud your drummer is etc. 

I've personally found a 500 watt head with a combination of cabinets covers many basses (no pun intended). At the moment I use a 500 watt head with a 2x10 cabinet for rehearsals and small gigs and add a 2nd cabinet for louder/bigger gigs. (I do play in a loud and heavy band most of the time). In truth this is a bit much for smaller things and for the quieter stuff I could use a 250-300 head, but I cant afford to have multiple heads and its better to have too much than too little.  

Oh and also my head has a headphone jack so I also use it for home practice. 1 stop shop. 

[ambient]

What sort of music do you play?

How loud is your band?

I've gigged with a 7 piece jazz band with drums and horns using a tiny 75w PJB Double four combo.I've also used the same amp with a very loud experimental improv group.

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

An Ampeg B15 is 30 watts. There's no simple answer here.

[Happy Jack]

Yes there is, Bill.

The minimum size is nil, nada, no bass amp at all.

Just a preamp pedal DI'd into the PA.

I suspect that is not what this topic is really about though.

[thumperbob 2002]

My 100w ampeg v4 is louder than my Mesa bassbuster 200w amp.  Both louder than my 350w fender tv 15 ( which is still loud enough for most gigs ). 

Your cab will make more of a differenc3 than you would think; as will eq. 

[Alec]

Not a question that can be answered.

Will depend on the venue, the style of music, the bassist, the other players, and the cab.

What works admirably for me, might be completely inadequate for you, and vice versa.

[chris_b]

This isn't a great question. The size of the venue has no bearing on how loud some bands play. I should know I'm in one of the silly ones!

The minimum I've gone out with in the last 20 years was a DI into the PA, but to keep on topic, 80% of my gigs have been done with a 500 watt amp and 2 112 cabs.

2 112's because 2 cabs sound better than 1, even at low volume. A 500 watt amp because sometimes I need it and there are several volume controls on the front for when I don't.

When you buy your gear always aim to keep something in reserve, ie if you think you need 200 watts, don't get a 200 watt amp. There is nothing worse than turning up to a gig with not quite enough. And nothing sounds worse than gear that is running flat out, trying to cope.

[Lozz196]

Good point Chris, I used my old Aguilar TH350/Barefaced Super 12T with two different bands, one (my actual band)had the master volume on 3, the other (I was standing in for) on 7. And this was just in the rehearsal room. Some bands are ridiculously loud, often, as was in the case of this one, due to the drummer.

[BigRedX]

the efficiency of your cabs will probably make more difference than the amp wattage.

I used to run one of two rigs both class D - one 300W and the other 1kW. With the input gain set so that I'm just below the point where the overload light comes on when I play my hardest, with PA support I've never had to have the master volume above 10 o'clock on either amp. The only time I've had to go above 12 o'clock on the master volume is when I used one of my amps in combination with someone else's inefficient cabs at an equipment share gig.

[chris_b]

Good point BRX.

I went from 3 112's to 2 112's to achieve the same volume, because the 2 cabs were more sensitive.

Edited February 27, 2018 by chris_b

[barneyg42]

Markbass LM3 into a 4ohm Schroeder 2x12, never found it wanting even in a very large club with no PA support. Classic Rock, GnR, Boston, Springsteen etc!

[discreet]

48 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Some bands are ridiculously loud, often, as was in the case of this one, due to the drummer.

+1 The overall volume of a band is surely down to how loud the drummer is. My current band has a great drummer who can play very quietly and it's a blessed relief, to be honest. I don't care what happens, I'm sticking with this guy!

A quiet-playing band also makes it much easier to rehearse, compose and get a good overall sound in general. Makes a huge difference when you're not pushing earplugs in, dealing with nosebleeds and gritting your teeth. A very loud band is just unnecessary, unprofessional and is also very tiring, both for players and listeners. *Awaits backlash from those who must be loud 'to get my sound' and so on... yawn.*

[chris_b]

Just now, discreet said:

A very loud band is just unnecessary, unprofessional and is also very tiring, both for players and listeners.

You are absolutely right.

A band that is too loud only because that is how the drummer plays should receive an immediate kick up the derrière for being rather silly!! Then they should fire the drummer and get a better one.

[Jack]

IME there are two answers to this question.

 

1. It very much depends on your situation. I'm one of the people who often don't take an amp at all these days. Conversely, I have been in a band in the past that needed (I'm not kidding, needed) my 1600W QSC amp and 2 2x12" cabs.

 

2. Oh, just get 500W and a medium sized cab such as a 2x12" or 4x10". That'll do for 99% of situations you'll face.

 

Pick an answer and run with it. :-)

[artisan]

Or A 100watt valve amp 😁

[Kevsy71]

You need to able to hear yourself and the other and members; the other band members need to be able to hear you; and the audience need a balanced mix and not a wall of indistinguishable noise. If your drummer has an acoustic kit then they need to be aware of this too (per comments above) and not start the volume wars. Turn down the noisy instruments, don't turn up the quiet ones, and vocals are king.

Unless you're all going In-Ear Monitors with DI only for the PA, then a 2x10  (Ampeg SVT-CL micro) or 1x15 (Fender Rumble) combo has always worked fine for me in pubs. 

[xgsjx]

1 hour ago, artisan said:

Or A 100watt valve amp 😁

Because valve watts are louder than those solid ones.  

Over the past while, I've gigged with a 100w Carlsberg amp into 2 1x15s, a 200w Trace Elliot 4x10 combo, a 350w Markbass 2x10 combo, a 30w Vox 1x12 combo & a 200w Radiovox valve amp into a 4x10.  Any can be used for gigging, though the 30w Vox only got used for the more intimate gigs (less than 50 people & it wasn't a noisy venue).
It's not about how many watts your rig can make, but how many decibels.

So the real answer is, an 8x10 stack should be ample, though you might need 2 for the bigger gigs.  

[BigRedX]

"Valve Watts" tend to sound louder because when you start to work them, valves compress the signal in a musically pleasing way, which means that the bits in-between the peaks are louder. So even though the peaks are no louder than a SS or Class D amp the average signal level is higher in a valve amp meaning that it sounds louder.

[Al Krow]

40 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

"Valve Watts" tend to sound louder because when you start to work them, valves compress the signal in a musically pleasing way, which means that the bits in-between the peaks are louder. So even though the peaks are no louder than a SS or Class D amp the average signal level is higher in a valve amp meaning that it sounds louder.

Nice summary, thanks. Got me doing a bit of research and I've managed to pull the attached together which hopefully explains why valve amps with the same wattage do in fact sound louder than solid state amps with the same wattage, for any folk who are interested in the science behind it!

Why do valve amps sound louder than SS.pdf

Edited February 27, 2018 by Al Krow

[discreet]

30 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Why do valve amps sound louder than SS.pdf

Thanks for that, very interesting. But why are Trace Elliot SS amps louder than non-TE SS amps..?

[Paul S]

37 minutes ago, discreet said:

Thanks for that, very interesting. But why are Trace Elliot SS amps louder than non-TE SS amps..?

Because Trace Elliot watts are calculated exponentially.  All is explained in this video.

 

[discreet]

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