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New to Fretless - lined or unlined?


LewisK1975

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On 2/25/2018 at 13:59, Paul S said:

That is an unnecessarily snarky remark.  Some people prefer no lines, some people like to have them.  I don't see why having the opposite view to the one you hold needs to provoke such a small minded response. 

Apologies if I upset anyone. I didn't mean to. My own view is that people can play whatever they like, so I guess that people holding the opposite view must be the ones who like to dictate what other people play.

To expand my point I can quite understand that people who like lines preferring or needing lines. I can also understand that people who can play unlined might be quite happy without, but I can't see why the presence of lines would be a problem to them. i.e., as per my first post, a lined one has all the options covered. Therefore for a first timer I'd have thought lined would be best.

Aesthetics is a different question of course. I quite like the look of fretted basses, and an unlined fretless just looks a bit uninteresting to me, but can perfectly understand that other people prefer the unlined look.

 

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23 hours ago, neilp said:

Who has time for kudos? It's about the fact that I find it easier to make good music and play in tune without trying to use visual clues to get a result that is non-visual. You don't use your ears to help you paint...

I actually have quite a good ear, and can tell when I'm not in tune. The problem is (for me) is that having played very little fretless, and for big jumps  (e.g. the All Right Now solo part), I can very easily end up out of tune. Of course my ears tell me its out of tune, but by then it's too late. I imagine that having lines would help in this situation.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Count Bassy said:

I actually have quite a good ear, and can tell when I'm not in tune. The problem is (for me) is that having played very little fretless, and for big jumps  (e.g. the All Right Now solo part), I can very easily end up out of tune. Of course my ears tell me its out of tune, but by then it's too late. I imagine that having lines would help in this situation.

 

 

Not anywhere near as much as you'd think, actually. You have to learn the interval anyway, the lines are a distraction. Try it, give yourself a week of focused, directed practice and you'll see.

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8 hours ago, project_c said:

How would you know how artists work? Are you an artist? Do you speak for all artists? Picasso, Kandinsky, Chagall, Georgia O'Keefe, Raymond Pettibon and a million other painters all used music as an integral part of their work. Let me know when you think you know about how art works better than them, before going anywhere near my backside.

The good thing about being a human is that we have a whole range of senses that we can utilise in whatever way we like. You're implying that if you use your eyes, you switch off your ears, which is stupid. Why not use both? That's what they're there for. You look at sheet music, don't you? Does it make you an inferior musician?Most of us combine our various senses to perform activities, they don't need to be used in exclusivity. It's a flawed argument. The intention behind it is valid, but it's flawed.

 

Talk about deliberate misrepresentation. Bored now. I have plenty of knowledge of art and music to be able to offer an opinion, including time spent at the Royal College of Music being taught by the very best, and my experience is that your eyes are best used to keep yuorself connected with your fellow musicians, and the best way to stay in tune is to use your ears, and to practice. Short cuts like fret lines are fine, if you just want to do it "adequately", but don't help you to become fluent and musical. Please yourself, you obviously know more about this subject (and me) than I do.

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On 2/25/2018 at 16:04, mcnach said:

 

what's the point of this list?

I can post another list of players that play what I prefer... say red basses... so, what is the point exactly?

(this thing about "if X is good enough for Y, who am I to argue?" really bugs me (in a non-very-serious kind of way) ;)

I don't know what BassBus's point was, but it does make the point that many highly respected fretless players choose to play lined models. i.e. that lined fretless basses are not purely for beginners. I'm sure that a similar list of unlined players could be put together. At the end of the day play what you want - After all, very few people in the outside world will give a toss.

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On 25 February 2018 at 20:07, ezbass said:

Yep.

88D364AE-876D-4AD6-815A-E3E5159D152C.jpeg

That looks very much like a Stingray tribute? Never seen one before. 

This argument about lines or not is very curious as far I can see. The argument put forward that it takes longer to learn to play an unlined Fretless is certainly not my experience - I bought mine off EBay about 10 yrs ago - I was astounded when I first played it how awful my intonation was - however it took me about two weeks of regular use to get my accuracy to an acceptable level - the dots on the top of the board are essential as location indicators - but beyond that it doesn't take long to get your ear attuned and to be accurate. I find the area about 12th fret can be tricky when standing up (owing to the angle you're viewing the neck, and also the fact the notes are so much closer together).

To me the real difference is the aesthetics - I prefer a blank board. I also fully appreciate some people don't - not entirely sure why anyone thinks their choice is more correct than anyone else's..... 

Edited by drTStingray
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9 hours ago, drTStingray said:

That looks very much like a Stingray tribute? Never seen one before. 

It’s a Maruszczyk Elwood L custom build. The Elwood L is essentially a chambered J type body (L for lightweight) with 3 over 1 headstock, but then the world’s your oyster as to pickups and hardware. As you can see, I went for 1xMM type pickup (I like a single p/up on a fretless) which makes it very ‘Ray in appearance. I’ve since added a Sterling shaped pickguard, so now it is even more MM in appearance.

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On 25/02/2018 at 13:52, Count Bassy said:

Surely a lined fretless covers all options. The lines are there if you want them and if you don't want the lines then don't look at them.

-  or is it to do with the kudos of the audience going Wow - he's playing without lines.

 

I played a gig with my fretless aged 18 and one of my "mates" is very loud and between every song kept shouting "but I can see frets?!!?!" But he's generally a prick and I think someone else told him where to go enough times he eventually stopped. Other people do ask whether it's fretless or not, if they sort of know something but aren't a bassist. I even handed it over to the barstaff at a gig recently so they could have a look up close, it does seem to be an oddity for "pub bands". Anyway, I think you're right, there is some weird kudos thing in the line debate as we are seeing in this thread, it's just manifested differently to my fat mate shouting "but I can see frets?!"

Just for my tuppence worth: mine is lined because it was the only option available. I rarely ever look at them when playing  though. If I were commissioning a build I'd probably want the little edge lines because I like the look of a blank board but don't have the confidence in myself above the twelfth, particularly if I'm walking about stage enjoying myself and playing spontaneously. 

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23 hours ago, Count Bassy said:

I don't know what BassBus's point was, but it does make the point that many highly respected fretless players choose to play lined models. i.e. that lined fretless basses are not purely for beginners. I'm sure that a similar list of unlined players could be put together. At the end of the day play what you want - After all, very few people in the outside world will give a toss.

 

You got my point then :)

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On 22/02/2018 at 18:04, LewisK1975 said:

As the title says, I’m looking to buy my first fretless, just to have one in the armoury as it were.  

It seems to me that having a lined neck would make it easier for someone who’s never played fretless before...

What’s the general consensus on this? 

Got my first fretless, too, over the weekend as part of a trade: an Ibby Portamento 5. I 'discovered' Ibbys last year and immediately fell in love with them. This is a fretless 5er to add to my 4 and 6 string (fretted) Ibby SRs - they have such 'playable' necks and are overall, IMHO, just great basses.

The Portamento is lined down the side but unlined on the surface of the fretboard. For me, that seems to work fine as a nice compromise between lined and unlined.

Have you landed on a particular make and model for yours?

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9 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Have you landed on a particular make and model for yours?

Thanks for asking AK, as it happens I picked it up last night!  It's a ESP/LTD PJ, found locally on Gumtree for the princely sum of £150, with one of those hard foam soft/hard cases.  Well happy with it, stopped by to see @Marc S on my way home and he agreed I got a bit of a bargain too.  Spent a little time with it last night, changed the Rounds that were on it for some TI flats, gave it a quick setup, which I plan to re-visit tomorrow evening and check everything has stayed where I'd like it.

It's an Unlined, but somewhat strangely, it has side dots for every fret position.  Got a sharpie on the 2,4,6,8 etc dots and now it makes a lot more sense!

IMG_0891.thumb.jpg.658f8f1aaf50432dff2b3aef70a5894e.jpgIMG_0892.thumb.jpg.d805a1e095db637b1bb6cc52142765a5.jpgIMG_0893.thumb.jpg.5041a2436d2c82d70f75640f47683e58.jpg

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Cheers for popping in Lewis - it was great to see you, and your new bass :)
However, I only just realised..... I didn't make you a cup of tea! :o
What a heinous, un-BC-like crime :o
I promise you can have one next time, and even a chocolate biscuit, as long as you don't tell anyone 

It's a great bass for the money Lewis. I was really impressed with the quality, feel and finish, and even more impressed with the sound
I bet once the action / truss-rod have been adjusted and allowed to "settle" it will feel even better. Love the colour too, really nice, rich 3TSB and in great nick too

As I said yesterday eve, the dots in every position on the edge of the neck would probably confuse me - but that's more to do with the fact I'm all too easily confused lol
I'm sure you could get used to them, or just dab some felt pen or acrylic paint over the ones you want to black out.....
Let us know how you're getting on with it matey. You were right when we were discussing how you alter your playing style when playing fretless
I had a quick go on mine just after you left.

Cheers, and enjoy your NFBD Lewis 

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4 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

@LewisK1975 Congrats on the new edition to your stable and always nice to bag a bargain at the same time! :) 

You got a particular set of songs / genre for the fretless in mind?

@Al Krow Nothing in particular really, I've toyed with the idea of having one for a long time.  I discussed with @Marc S last night about how it seems to make you play very differently, almost like you're appreciating every note rather than just trying to get to the next one.

There's little chance of me ever becoming a fretless virtuoso of any description, but I think it's good to have it, just for when that different voice is required.

Either that or I'll just end up playing Paul Young over and over. xD

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Let the notes ring, it's so delightful !

And congratulations for your fretless bass. Good choice and terrific price.

The flater the relief of the neck , the mwaher the sound of the bass and roundwounds do it even better, but the TI's are the best flatwounds with enough mwah.

Use the pickup you prefer, but if you don't know where to start, use the bridge only, cut completely the tone and boost the mids to max on your amp with a pinch of treble and adjust the bass a bit lowe : instant walk over cat tails sound. B|

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Some nice pics of basses on this theead, both lined and unlined.

I played most of my gigs fretless. Even though I was unlined I could still get visual clues from the side dots. Then once I got on stage, with the vageries of the stage lighting, I couldn't see the damn dots most of the time. So, I started practising in the dark.

If your intonation is slightly out, you will notice. If it's slightly more out, the band will notice. If it's really out, the audience will notice... that's really bad news... just keep practising.

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