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Gibson facing bankruptcy


Kiwi

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14 hours ago, ambient said:

I wasn’t aware they made them, that’s their problem I think, they make and sell instruments that only appeal to a limited market. Looking on their website they seem aimed at either rock players or maybe blues or rock and roll. They have a few 5 string models, no 6 string basses. Like I said earlier, it’s not just blues or rock nowadays. 

I did wonder if the much more modern-looking EB they released last year was an attempt to finally move into something more modern. FinnDave ran a thread on one he'd bought recently and spoke very highly of it - I wasn't a big fan of its looks when photos first appeared, but it did sound like it was much more versatile than some of their other models. Too little too late, by the sounds of things...

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On 19/02/2018 at 11:44, EliasMooseblaster said:

I did wonder if the much more modern-looking EB they released last year was an attempt to finally move into something more modern. FinnDave ran a thread on one he'd bought recently and spoke very highly of it - I wasn't a big fan of its looks when photos first appeared, but it did sound like it was much more versatile than some of their other models. Too little too late, by the sounds of things...

Yeah, it is a versatile bass ( 2 humbuckers with coil taps) but I've some to realise that I don't need a range of tones from a bass, I just need it to sound like a Precision. And I have several of them already, so my EB4 has been in the 'for sale' section for a few weeks now. 

I'm taking the EB4 with me to a GD rehearsal, as the Precisions don't sound quite right for a 2 guitars/keys/2 drummers band. Also taking my only surviving Jazz bass, so will see how I feel about them tomorrow night. The EB4 is currently withdrawn from sale. I really should keep it, as it is by far the lightest bass I've ever played, and if I sell it, I'll probably injure my arm or back the  following day!

Edited by FinnDave
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As far as I can figure out the Gibson guitar brand is not the issue here, and why should it be?  They are managing to sell poorly manufactured instruments at a premium price.  The issue is that the "Gibson family of brands"  includes non core businessess and the aquisitions have cost them dear.  Why would a corporationn which sells itself as a craft luthier brand purchase Phillips consumer electronics (AV and multimedia).  I can just about see the TEAC consumer brand fitting due to the Tascam subsiduary.but turning u at electronics shows and not at NAMM seems to dilute the brand.

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2 hours ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

...I think most fender buyers are happy with the product without fender trying to innovate, same as Ric, the buyers just want a well made version of their tried and tested staple products. 

+1

People buy Fender because of the brand's heritage, amongst other reasons of course. In terms of innovation, they've been largely stagnant for decades - and I say this as someone who happily owns a P-bass; it's not a criticism ("it works / don't try to fix it", etc).

Same applies to audio gear brands like API and Neve, who've been churning out the same product range pretty much unchanged since the 1960s. That sense of familiarity and reassurance has a real value to buyers.

I would have honestly placed Gibson in the same bracket - the Les Paul for instance is an instantly recognisable classic - but it's well known that guitar sales are falling gradually across the board. I think - or at least hope - that this will level out in time and that there'll always be a consistent market for guitars, albeit perhaps not as big a market as manufacturers have enjoyed in the past.

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Although, as previously stated, I think and hope they will fail, that is the element they can't win with, they have just launched a load of umm.. star fleet badge shaped guitars for $stupid and social media is awash with 'Oh why don't they stick to their proper models', so when they release there next Reissue of a 2004 reissue of a 1982 reissue of a 1965 les paul, the 'they never do anything original' crowd will be out!

 

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Ultimately how many guitars and basses does the world need? A mass produced product with an indefinite shelf life that doesn't really wear out was never going to be the best long term business model was it? 

As for the new EB I think it looks ok but nothing better than something for a couple of hundred quid from Ibanez or Yamaha etc. 

Edited by stingrayPete1977
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4 hours ago, BigRedX said:

You could aim pretty much all those criticisms at Fender and Rickenbacker as well.

Rickenbacker for sure, but Fender not so much. They have presence on Fb, instagram, YouTube, they promote young bands, they're including free online lessons with their cheaper models, so at least they are working on it.

Interestingly I was chatting to one of my students the other day and he was a Gibson fan. He's 21. He gets his info about guitar stuff from youtube, and not directly from the manufacturers but from channels like Andertons. He didn't think any of the brands were out of touch or out of date, because the channels he accesses the products through are well put together and feel fairly contemporary. 

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It's a shame, but not that surprising. I've had a couple of older Gibson guitars (before about 2006 or so) which have been lovely quality, followed by a 2011 one which was awful build quality and finishing (rough fretboard, machine marks in the wood etc). I haven't bought another new one since.

On the other hand, the two Epiphones I have are both beautifully made (2007 Jack Casady and a 2015 Casino) for half the price.

A quick look at the Epiphone website shows that they seem to have all the bright ideas for basses, while Gibson clunk along with the same old models.

Maybe Gibson needs this for someone else to take over and do it properly once again. A good Gibson is a fine thing, but they're not a dead cert at all.

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they ask a lot of money for their product and pretty much only because its made in America. Whilst I appreciate that Americans are paid more than the Chinese; its not proportionately better for being made in the US, or each one absolutely perfect . Its not like each one is carefully blessed by magic pixies upon completion. Just priced out of its market. I'd say the same about US fenders.

I had an epiphone les paul that blew a real gibson out of the water once i'd replaced the pickups. Worth the extra to go Gibson? I didn't feel so.  

Edited by Geek99
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Gibson has been in murky financial waters for some years now. I looked through the business acquisitions they have made in the last ten years or so and so many of them are quite a long way from their core business. Spending money they don't have on those and all the legal cases they have tried to fight might not be seen as money well spent. 

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3 hours ago, ambient said:

Do they even make a fretless bass?

 

3 hours ago, Hellzero said:

They made some fretlesses a long time ago, but these days, absolutely not.

They really should start making them again - every so often I see photos of fretless Grabbers and Rippers which look like they'd be superb basses (and surely they'd save a few cents on the cost of fret wire...)

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10 hours ago, lemmywinks said:

Not surprising, a comically backwards thinking company run by clueless idiots that produces novelty knock-offs of classic instruments. This is their latest idea, apparently the cost is $4,999:

HebcsDLJyykyjVKMvCpFr7-970-80.jpg

Based on that alone I can't think of a more deserving company to go bankrupt.

Those finishes are a clumsy attempt at offering something different.  Talk about clutching at straws!!

10 hours ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

... buyers just want a well made version of their tried and tested staple products. 

If Gibbo had got their marketing and quality-control acts together, their core product range would probably have kept them going too.

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Can't fault my 2014 SG bass for build quality (there is the other perennial issue, neck dive, which could and should have be designed out by now) and bought used the price was excellent.  Bought used it was also about the right price for a new one when I compare it to what is available from China / India / Korea / Indonesia / Japan? (choose country and price as applicable).  In the age of CNC precision manufacturing, providing you can obtain quality wood then IMO there is no 'magic sauce'  anymore. It is just down to good design, manufacture and quality control.  Other than specialist luthier build, guitars have entered the world of white goods, they are commodities.

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On 2/18/2018 at 16:49, Cato said:

Bankruptcy in the US doesn't necessarily mean the end of the line.

If Gibson file for Chapter 11 they'll be protected from their creditors while they restructure the business, which could include selling off some of their subsidiaries and intellectual property rights from companies which they've acquired and ultimately wound up.

It also allows them to seek new finance.

Even if restructuring fails and no new finance is available then the creditors have the option of acquiring the company and it's assets in lieu of the debt. The chances are in that scenario the debtors would attempt to sell the Gibson brand and production facilities to a third party who could then acquire them without taking on the current debt.

Even if Gibson has to file for Chapter 7 bankruptcy, which basically means the complete liquidation of all assets, the brand and production facilities would still likely be sold as part of that process.

Gibson may be doomed in it's current form but I'd put money on the brand and the classic designs being in production, one way or another, for a very long time to come.

This doesn't give me an excuse to nip out and buy a new Les Paul for under the bed...

PMT in Manchester can't get any new Gibson stock at present as the CITES certification for Gibsons is being an issue at the moment.

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Gibson: how do I hate thee? Let me count the ways.

Here's the new 'Modern V' - apparently a new take on the 1967 V

5a8b611072ae5_gibsonmodernv.jpg.b714f7941d0294c0f3ecb74250c6e668.jpg

OK, not all bad, you think.

You look closer and see a list price of $4499. Ouch! But - still - there's something about it that intrigues you.

Then you discover it's got a richlite (compressed paper and resin) fingerboard. Alright, Martin use richlite on their cheaper (but still nice) acoustics. And you know that at least one reasonably well-known luthier's refretted a richlite board and pronounced it acceptable.

But Richlite on a four-and-a-half grand guitar? Even so, the look still tugs at you. It's one of the less butt-ugly models Gibson have put out recently. Unique, almost.

Then - being of a certain age - you dimly remember the Jackson Roswell Rhoads which first came out in the 1990's.

 

5a8b62bbdc227_roswellrhoads.jpg.8c84533b54914dcecc6b37686ae89c50.jpg

 

Wow, must be worth a fortune, right. Secondhand Roswell went for just under £700 on Reverb just before Xmas. Another one went on the bay for £1500.

So, $4499 for a slightly less-than-unique V mash-up with a richlite board. Thanks, Gibson. Thank you so very f**king much.

Edited by skankdelvar
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11 hours ago, 12stringbassist said:

PMT in Manchester can't get any new Gibson stock at present as the CITES certification for Gibsons is being an issue at the moment.

A rather well known shop local to me had a very large shipment of Gibsons in recently. 90% of them needed a full set up before hitting the showroom floor....... and some 20%+ were sent back as being unacceptable.

Not what you would expect from a legendary and expensive brand!

Edited by cetera
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