LewisK1975 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, pburrows said: what do you use to monitor? In-ears fed from the PA, I have a full band mix, with my vocal and the bass louder than they should be. Love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pburrows Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 Nice. What band do you play in? And is that an in-house PA run by the house sound engineer or your own band PA? Sometimes when we support we only get a line check so getting everything set up properly doesn't happen. How would that work with in-ears? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, pburrows said: Nice. What band do you play in? And is that an in-house PA run by the house sound engineer or your own band PA? Sometimes when we support we only get a line check so getting everything set up properly doesn't happen. How would that work with in-ears? In the covers band, it's our own PA which I'm charged with setting up/operating, so that's nice and easy. More difficult in my originals band, I still use the Helix, but we're the same as you, sometimes there's only time for a line check so I can't use my in-ears. In that case I'll normally ask for a wedge mix. If I can't have that, I'll make do with whatever is bleeding back from the Rig / stage sound.. Edited February 8, 2018 by LewisK1975 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pburrows Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 12 minutes ago, LewisK1975 said: In the covers band, it's our own PA which I'm charged with setting up/operating, so that's nice and easy. More difficult in my originals band, I still use the Helix, but we're the same as you, sometimes there's only time for a line check so I can't use my in-ears. In that case I'll normally ask for a wedge mix. If I can't have that, I'll make do with whatever is bleeding back from the Rig / stage sound.. Got ya. Ok thanks dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Steve Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) On the subject of monitoring, I’ll always just have the bass through whatever stage monitors the venue has, and am happy to play without any backline. I’m also happy just to be able to hear enough of the bass to be able to tell if I’m out of tune - not fussed about the on stage sound if it’s good out front Edited February 9, 2018 by Monkey Steve Sp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 33 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said: On the subject of monitoring, I’ll always just have the bass through whatever stage monitors the venue has, and am happy to play without any backline. I’m also happy just to be able to hear enough of the bass to be able to tell if I’m out of tune - not fussed about the on stage sound if it’s good out feont Indeed, it's nice if it sounds good on-stage, but as long as FOH sounds good, all that really matters is you can hear yourself.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pburrows Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 OK, developing this thread slightly. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on using amp modellers direct to PA, and some form of on-stage monitoring. The Helix range looks awesome, but do you think for the price a POD500 or even a used Bass Pod XT might be a suitable alternative? What would I need to pay more for the Helix? To confirm, I want to use this in a (semi)-pro live gigging environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 17 hours ago, Monkey Steve said: I’m also happy just to be able to hear enough of the bass to be able to tell if I’m out of tune - not fussed about the on stage sound if it’s good out front For me this is unthinkable really, unless due to amp failure etc. Whilst I'm not a diva when it comes to what I'll use, having at least an acceptable stage sound is paramount to my overall satisfaction for the gig. Of course the FOH is of major importance too, but having things sorted with your sound onstage affects this - how you play and the overall vibe - and is essential to the whole band sounding good. IMO of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerstodge Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 17 hours ago, LewisK1975 said: Indeed, it's nice if it sounds good on-stage, but as long as FOH sounds good, all that really matters is you can hear yourself.. I tend to play 100% better if I have a good onstage sound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 20 minutes ago, pburrows said: OK, developing this thread slightly. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on using amp modellers direct to PA, and some form of on-stage monitoring. The Helix range looks awesome, but do you think for the price a POD500 or even a used Bass Pod XT might be a suitable alternative? What would I need to pay more for the Helix? To confirm, I want to use this in a (semi)-pro live gigging environment. For me, somebody that was a die hard big rig fan... the last thing I want now is take a conventional bass rig to a gig. A modeller and inears for me please. I'd much rather rock up with a modeller that makes your bass sound like its been recorded in a studio. Yes, you can mic up your live rig but there will be a compomise along the way. DI - will give you just your DI and not the sound of your speaker cab. Micing up the speaker cab will give you a close miced sound but will introduce bleed from the other noises being made on the stage. Yes, you could use a speaker emulator on your DI - but that's another component to carry around with your rig. The modelling route appeals to me because it gives you the recorded rig sound without the complication. If you are an fx unit user - all the fx you could want (within reason) are in there. The volumes are far more controllable - no more "I need to drive my amp hard to get the power tube distortion that I am craving...". The sound is consistent and instantly recallable from gig to gig. Any tweaks for a specific venue can be made and saved to memory for reuse. If you aren't a big fx user... and not into loads of different sounds, something not as involved as the Helix could be order of the day. As long as you dig the core tone, you are good to go. Of course, you can still use your existing fx pedals etc (if you use them) with a modeller also. If you need a cab to hear yourself on stage, then a good FRFR PA cab will outperform most bass specific cabs. Again, light, portable and multipurpose (a modeller and cab will do the job for both guitar and bass - if you play both). I like inears - less to carry and everything sounds a lot clearer - if you want to learn more about that, you could do worse than read through this thread - (grab yourself a cuppa...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 1 minute ago, rogerstodge said: I tend to play 100% better if I have a good onstage sound Agreed. Half of the enjoyment for me is being able to dig the sound I am making onstage.. hence why I have invested in both a foh and dedicated monitoring desk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pburrows Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 Will a cheap modeller do the job? eg bass pod pro or POD500, or do I need to be looking at a Kemper or Helix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Just now, pburrows said: Will a cheap modeller do the job? eg bass pod pro or POD500, or do I need to be looking at a Kemper or Helix? It depends on what you are trying to get out of it. Only you can see if the POD500 cuts if for your circumstance or not. The bass pod and pod500 are still very two capable pieces of kit. You'll have to try these things out and see if they give you what you want. I personally run a Kemper - but that replaced both my guitar and bass rig... and I really liked the idea of being able to profile stuff. For example, my current go to profile is based around a high end channel strip mic preamp being fed into a SSL desk. You won't get that out of anything else (and it's a bit easier than carrying a console to a gig). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Steve Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 4 hours ago, EBS_freak said: Agreed. Half of the enjoyment for me is being able to dig the sound I am making onstage.. hence why I have invested in both a foh and dedicated monitoring desk. It really doesn't bother me - the purpose of the gig is to entertain the crowd, not the band. Not that I don't prefer to hear myself perfectly on stage, only that if I can't then I don't let it worry me. For me, the singer is the only one who should worry about how well they can hear themself...of course it's usually the guitarists who spend three quarters of the soundcheck wibbling about their on stage sound... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Each to their own...but I'm greedy. I like a brilliant mix out front and a brilliant mix in my ears. And the fact I don't go deaf is a bonus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Excuse my utter ignorance in this field but are some of you suggesting bass into Helix, Helix into DI, DI into desk, no amp or cab onstage and just using in-ear or wedge monitoring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Steve Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: Each to their own...but I'm greedy. I like a brilliant mix out front and a brilliant mix in my ears. And the fact I don't go deaf is a bonus! agreed - in an ideal world I'd have both, but I've played too many gigs where it didn't happen so now I'm just happy to let it go, let the soundman worry about what's out front and not what I want to hear on stage *gratuitous namedrop alert* I once had a chat with Chris Slade (a singer from an old band of mine is now in Slade's Timeline, the band he plays in clubs with when he's not on arena tours earning proper money). he said that when he was in AC/DC (the chat was prior to the last tour he did with them) he only once got on stage sound that he liked, when the regular soundman doing his monitors was away and somebody else stepped in. He said he did this nightly pantomime of asking for a bit more of this and a bit less of that in his monitors, and then when he played it was the same awful mix that he got every night, because the soundman "knew" what he liked, apparently better than Slade knew himself Edited February 9, 2018 by Monkey Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 18 minutes ago, Frank Blank said: Excuse my utter ignorance in this field but are some of you suggesting bass into Helix, Helix into DI, DI into desk, no amp or cab onstage and just using in-ear or wedge monitoring? Its completely flexible. You could do something like any of these... bass -> helix -> FRFR (e.g. PA cab) - no bass through PA bass -> helix -> PA for FOH & FRFR onstage bass -> helix -> PA for FOH -> using FRFR as a monitor that has your bass and anything else you'd want to hear bass -> helix -> PA for FOH -> aux for inears (not even a FRFR cab) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pburrows Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 1 minute ago, EBS_freak said: Its completely flexible. You could do something like any of these... bass -> helix -> FRFR (e.g. PA cab) - no bass through PA bass -> helix -> PA for FOH & FRFR onstage bass -> helix -> PA for FOH -> using FRFR as a monitor that has your bass and anything else you'd want to hear bass -> helix -> PA for FOH -> aux for inears (not even a FRFR cab) BOOM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 20 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said: agreed - in an ideal world I'd have both, but I've played too many gigs where it didn't happen so now I'm just happy to let it go, let the soundman worry about what's out front and not what I want to hear on stage *gratuitous namedrop alert* I once had a chat with Chris Slade (a singer from an old band of mine is now in Slade's Timeline, the band he plays in clubs with when he's not on arena tours earning proper money). he said that when he was in AC/DC (the chat was prior to the last tour he did with them) he only once got on stage sound that he liked, when the regular soundman doing his monitors was away and somebody else stepped in. He said he did this nightly pantomime of asking for a bit more of this and a bit less of that in his monitors, and then when he played it was the same awful mix that he got every night, because the soundman "knew" what he liked, apparently better than Slade knew himself Thats why sometimes its easy to carry your own monitoring rig that you can control with ipad/phone etc and mix yourself. What you need is a XLR split. Each XLR send is plugged into two mixers; one XLR to your monitor mixer... one XLR goes to front of house. Let the FOH do what they want... you do what they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Just now, pburrows said: BOOM! Wont be too long before "And another one"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 And lets not forget that coffee shop situation where you can go... bass -> helix -> PA (no need for monitoring or anything because you can hear the front of house OK) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Excuse my ignorance once more... FRFR = ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 26 minutes ago, Frank Blank said: Excuse my ignorance once more... FRFR = ? Full Range Flat Response, such as a (good...) PA cab, or HiFi cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 @Frank Blank - The FRFR is the important bit for colourless, faithful tone reproduction. So in the above - the helix is reproducing the sound of a miced up rig as it would sound if it was recorded in a studio. So when you output sound from the Helix, you want whatever is amplifying the sound to do it without adding it's own character to it... which the majority of bass cabs will not do (most are actually pretty heavily coloured). PA speakers are generally a good option as they are designed for hifi, FRFR reproduction - e.g. what you put in, you get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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