Are Markbass cabs now considered a bit rubbish?

[franzbassist]

5 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

The one criticism of the Markbass amps (which are generally very good) is their EQ points: the bass frequency is centred at 40 Hz, which is a touch low and perhaps more importantly the treble is centred at 10kHz which is significantly above a more usable 3kHz to 5kHz.

• LOW: center frequency: 40 Hz; level: ±16 dB
• LOW MID: center frequency: 360 Hz, level: ±16 dB
• HIGH MID: center frequency: 800 Hz, level: ±16 dB
• HIGH: center frequency: 10 kHz, level: ±16 dB
• VPF (Variable Pre-shape Filter)[= mid-scoop]: center frequency 380 Hz
• VLE (Vintage Loudspeaker Emulator): frequency range 250 Hz-20 kHz 

The new Little Marcus could be very interesting in this respect, as it has different EQ points

EQ1
ULTRALOW: Level ±16 dB (Freq. 65Hz)
LOW: Level ±16 dB (Freq. 180Hz)
MID: Level ±16 dB (Freq. 500 Hz)
HIGH MID: Level ±16 dB (Freq. 1.4 KHz)
HIGH: Level ±16 dB (Freq. 3.8 KHz)

EQ2
OLD SCHOOL: Variable LOW PASS From 20KHz to 200Hz
MILLERIZER: 5-12 KHz BAND PASS Filter (Level 0 /+10 dB)

[T-Bay]

6 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

I still think we have become conditioned into hearing too bright a sound from basses these days. Listen to a double bass, which tends to produce mainly the fundamental of the note. Where are the bright overtones or the sizzle we hear from so many electric basses? I'm not criticising the fact that people like that effect, but it isn't necessarily accurate or "flat". 

This^^^^^^ I found I had to work hard to get away from the brightness described above. Some must like it but it’s not for all.

[Al Krow]

38 minutes ago, walbassist said:

The new Little Marcus could be very interesting in this respect, as it has different EQ points

EQ1
ULTRALOW: Level ±16 dB (Freq. 65Hz)
LOW: Level ±16 dB (Freq. 180Hz)
MID: Level ±16 dB (Freq. 500 Hz)
HIGH MID: Level ±16 dB (Freq. 1.4 KHz)
HIGH: Level ±16 dB (Freq. 3.8 KHz)

EQ2
OLD SCHOOL: Variable LOW PASS From 20KHz to 200Hz
MILLERIZER: 5-12 KHz BAND PASS Filter (Level 0 /+10 dB)

That is interesting, thanks. Those EQ points are pretty darned close to what many of us would consider ideal.

So put together a Little Marcus 800 (amusingly the same initials as LM on the LM3, just to confuse matters  ) which delivers 500W at 8ohms £629 with a Markbass Traveller 123 cab £729 800W RMS 8ohms (47 lbs) and you've got a killer rig - combined with all of the things that Markbass do brilliantly; including having some fantastically reliable products.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

26 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

I still think we have become conditioned into hearing too bright a sound from basses these days. Listen to a double bass, which tends to produce mainly the fundamental of the note. Where are the bright overtones or the sizzle we hear from so many electric basses? I'm not criticising the fact that people like that effect, but it isn't necessarily accurate or "flat". 

But apples and pears, right? An electric bass guitar and an acoustic double bass are very different beasts, with different sounds. Rock bands are generally not going to feature a double bass, right?

Surely the point here is that the cab should reflect what is coming out of the instrument (= flat) whether that  be overtones (electric bass) or not (double bass)? With the BIG caveat that many bassists actually want the colour that their cabs provide.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Al Krow

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, Jus Lukin said:

Touch of irony here, I'll stick up for Markbass, but I'm also going to be selling some of mine!

Not ironic: completely rational sales strategy 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Al Krow

[discreet]

3 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

I still think we have become conditioned into hearing too bright a sound from basses these days. Listen to a double bass, which tends to produce mainly the fundamental of the note. Where are the bright overtones or the sizzle we hear from so many electric basses? I'm not criticising the fact that people like that effect, but it isn't necessarily accurate or "flat". 

I get that 'the public' are unlikely to have systems that reproduce true low end, thus the bass sound also needs a component in it that will represent it adequately through crappy computer speakers et al. Back in the day a gang of us would congregate at the house of whoever had the best HiFi and do nothing but take drugs and listen to music for hours on end. I miss that. 

[Dan Dare]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

But apples and pears, right? An electric bass guitar and an acoustic double bass are very different beasts, with different sounds. Rock bands are generally not going to feature a double bass, right?

Surely the point here is that the cab should reflect what is coming out of the instrument (= flat) whether that  be overtones (electric bass) or not (double bass)? With the BIG caveat that many bassists actually want the colour that their cabs provide.

Of course, hence my comment that I'm not criticising the fact that people like that effect. But it isn't accurate. If you want to know what your bass sounds like, route it via a good quality DI into your mixing desk and listen on good quality headphones. It can be surprising.

[discreet]

7 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

If you want to know what your bass sounds like, route it via a good quality DI into your mixing desk and listen on good quality headphones. It can be surprising.

I have full-range studio monitors, and it IS surprising. The best natural-sounding bass I've had was a Road Worn P. I don't know what the stock pick up is on those, but it sounded very sweet indeed - the epitome of P Bass.

[Al Krow]

Hope the OP doesn't mind me taking this off track into Markbass amps, but it's kinda linked to what folk have been saying in relation to the cabs and tone roll off.

I've been looking into the Markbass 'High EQ gap' for those of us wanting to boost the treble on our Markbass amps and cabs. Starting point is that prior to this new gen of Little Marcus amp heads the EQ points for Markbass amp heads is:

• HIGH MID:  800 Hz, level: ±16 dB

[Massive gap!]

• HIGH: 10 kHz, level: ±16 dB

Given that the Markbass cabs have a propensity to roll off the high end, as noted above, then (for those of us who want to) it would be great to be able to compensate by boosting the 3kHz to 5kHz range. The treble control on Markbass amps (other than the new Little Marcus range) doesn't allow that.

In addition: there is no ability to adjust the tweeter volume or crossover point on Markbass cabs.

The only other relevant feature is the VLE control, however this is a shelf EQ treble cut not a boost and won't help to address a desire to boost treble in the relevant range:

So I think for those of who want to address this one 'shortcoming' on our Markbass gear, rather than spending £1,500 on a Little Marcus amp and Traveller 123 cab(!) the 'obvious' solution is to invest in an EQ pedal or even a relatively cheap / value for money Zoom MS-60B and use its GEQ effects patch. And @Jus Lukin can sell his Markbass gear knowing that this one shortcoming has a relatively easy fix and his kit is otherwise great for reliability, portability, power and sound and has a large fan base. (There you go, sales pitch made!  )

[Roger2611]

I will stick up for Mark Bass as well, I really like the tone of my LM3 2x10 and 1x15 Traveller set up, I have used it for many gigs and have always had compliments on it, I run the eq flat on the amp and all adjustments are just with the VLE and VPF controls, that said I only really like the sound of a P bass through the rig but irrespective of what rig I have played through I never seemed to get the sound I wanted out of anything other than a P bass.

I brought a Mesa Boogie Subway rig last month as I always wanted to return to Mesa gear, if I am honest i really don't think the Mesa rig sounds massively better than the MB rig, yes there is a difference but not a huge one!

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Al Krow]

54 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said:

 

Thanks for helping me reel the suckers in! *Rubs hands with glee...*

There, you've gone and done it and totally undermined your rational sales strategy! Afraid nothing further I can do to help and Mrs Lukin will not be happy with your gear jus' lurkin' around the living room 'cos you can no longer shift it...

[discreet]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Mrs Lukin will not be happy with your gear jus' lurkin' around the living room 'cos you can no longer shift it...

Speaking as a Markbass-loving sucker myself, I'd say there's no such thing as bad publicity and can't wait for the gear to come up for sale. 

At the right price, of course....

Edited February 5, 2018 by discreet

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[discreet]

9 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said:

I was going to go for the fair secondhand market price, but to you, Discreet- that plus 10%. 

Oo-er. Well... I've just read all the previous posts and have now decided that Markbass cabs are probably a bit rubbish - so I'm going to buy a truss and get some Trace Elliot cabs instead.

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[bassbiscuits]

I've got two Little Mark heads (a LM2 and an LM3) and I love them.

But I've never really got on with the cabs - much prefer the sound of my Aguilar GS410, even though it's a much bigger, heavier cab.

Then again, I've heard lots of people using Markbass cabs and sounding great.

I'm very tempted by their lighter weight now I'm whizzing towards my mid-40s....

[ambient]

As a Markbass user I'd say they're most certainly not rubbish. In fact they they're the best cabs and amps that I've used.

Take a look at their endorsers, people like Marcus Miller for instance who could use any amp he wanted.

[discreet]

41 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said:

To be fair, I came to Markbass from Trace, and they are also awesome. Despite the obvious...

Interestingly Trace cabs also colour one's sound somewhat, resulting in the same kind of polarisation seen in this thread...

[The59Sound]

I think 'not fashionable' is the term you're looking for. Remember the TC RH450? Everyone had one then the next thing. Genz Benz Shuttle? Great, what's next? Barefaced cabs! Before you know it they're in the FS section. 

[Musashimonkey]

I’ve had BF cabs, which are amazing, Vanderklay’s, amazing too, GK neo’s, amazing again, and many others. It’s great there are such a range of options. 

I’m currently using MB cabs, they’re great, are they the best ever? Are they FRFR? No, but they are excellent for their current task of pub based gigs. They do colour the sound for sure, but my band members and probably the general public (though 99% probably don’t give a damn) want a coloured sound. Playing through an FRFR PA speaker; although it sounds fantastic and defined to me, my band kept wanting to roll off all the treble and boost the bass and low mids to give a more traditional tone. Through the MB set up, they’re happy as is. 

Every bit of kit has got pro’s and con’s, it’s great there are so many options. I see them as tools to serve a purpose. 

[Wolverinebass]

Yeah. "Not fashionable" was what I was looking for. Cheers @The59Sound.

@ambient I tend to take endorsers with a pinch of salt. Is the Hartke TX600 really being endorsed by Victor Wooten for any reason other than money?! Aside from the fact it's awful of course. I see markbass have a Stu Hamm amp now not just Marcus Miller. Quite the coups, but I'd bet they're paying them for it and because they're all fantastic, they can make any old pile of junk sound great. Markbass stuff isn't junk of course.

Gear choice for those folk I'd imagine is almost irrelevant in some ways other than how much they'll get paid for using it for a year or two.

[chris_b]

1 hour ago, Wolverinebass said:

Is the Hartke TX600 really being endorsed by Victor Wooten for any reason other than money?!

And Hartke are endorsed by Billy Sheehan and Will Lee. You can bet  that none of these guys are going to use any gear that doesn't make them sound how they want to sound or any gear that makes them sound bad.

I heard that Victor Wooten wanted to go with Bergantino, but they couldn't guarantee to supply him with gear where ever he was in the world.

So that's a non financial reason for using Hartke.

[discreet]

12 minutes ago, chris_b said:

...none of these guys are going to use any gear that doesn't make them sound how they want to sound or any gear that makes them sound bad...

Is it even possible these days to buy new gear that would actually make one sound bad? It certainly  was back in the day, but now? Just like in the 70s and 80s you could buy a new car that was slow and badly put together, today most new cars are much of a muchness regarding quality and performance.