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High Pass Filters


funkydoug

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15 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Thanks for the info. Nearly all of my working experience with filters been variable designs in synthesisers, so I wasn't aware that by removing the variable aspect it would be easier to reduce the cut off frequency hump.

A lot of hardware cabinet simulators take advantage of the filter overshoot (the electronic term is ringing - it's a characteristic of the Q, or quality factor of the filter). The OmniCabSim is a prime example of a collection of filters designed specifically to be non-ideal.

Edited by Bigwan
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there's not that many Hi pass filters about from what I can see, the thumpinator looks like it's non adjustable which is would put me off, that leaves the Boughton model, which looks like you have to send off to the USA for, just wondering why they're so hard to come by

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17 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

there's not that many Hi pass filters about from what I can see, the thumpinator looks like it's non adjustable which is would put me off, that leaves the Boughton model, which looks like you have to send off to the USA for, just wondering why they're so hard to come by

Just a hole nobody has really filled. There's also an Australian built passive HPF that is 6dB/oct and TINY, but can't recall what it's called right now... EDIT: It's called the Tight A*se...

If there's interest I could build a little run of the Vong filter when it's released. If I had more free time I'd put together a competitor for the Thumpinator myself. It's eye-wateringly expensive for what is essentially (and I'm just taking a wild guess without counting the pennies) £8 - £10 of parts...

I might give this a bit of thought... I can think of 4 useful pedalboard tools of varying complexities along the same lines...

Edited by Bigwan
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17 minutes ago, Bigwan said:

Just a hole nobody has really filled. There's also an Australian built passive HPF that is 6dB/oct and TINY, but can't recall what it's called right now... EDIT: It's called the Tight A*se...

If there's interest I could build a little run of the Vong filter when it's released. If I had more free time I'd put together a competitor for the Thumpinator myself. It's eye-wateringly expensive for what is essentially (and I'm just taking a wild guess without counting the pennies) £8 - £10 of parts...

I might give this a bit of thought... I can think of 4 useful pedalboard tools of varying complexities along the same lines...

I suspect there would definitely be interest! No one else seems to doing a combined HPF / LPF besides Josh Broughton and maybe his stuff could be improved on taking account of the comments from Big Red X and Jus Lukin? See where you get to on your thinking and I'll hold off putting an order for a Broughton in the meantime :)

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1 hour ago, PaulWarning said:

there's not that many Hi pass filters about from what I can see, the thumpinator looks like it's non adjustable which is would put me off, that leaves the Boughton model, which looks like you have to send off to the USA for, just wondering why they're so hard to come by

TBH the lack of adjustability is one of the Thumpinator's greatest strengths. You simply plug it into your signal chain and let it get on with removing those frequencies that are making your amp and cabs work extra hard for minimal audible benefit (and could be potentially damaging the speakers). The fact that there are no adjustable controls means that you can't set it up so it's not being as effective as it could. Plus because you shouldn't be able to "hear" it working, there is little point in being able to adjust it.

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13 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

TBH the lack of adjustability is one of the Thumpinator's greatest strengths. You simply plug it into your signal chain and let it get on with removing those frequencies that are making your amp and cabs work extra hard for minimal audible benefit (and could be potentially damaging the speakers). The fact that there are no adjustable controls means that you can't set it up so it's not being as effective as it could. Plus because you shouldn't be able to "hear" it working, there is little point in being able to adjust it.

I get that but if it was adjustable you could use it to get rid of stuff you can hear but don't want, say anything below 40Hz

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Just now, Aalin said:

Whitch Broughton box combine HPF/LPF ?

I had a look at their parametric eq whitch seems interesting and small.

 

This one: http://broughtonaudio.bigcartel.com/product/low-high-pass-filter

No HPF on the Zoom B3n

What it does have is 1 band para EQ and a 7 band GEQ. I tried both just now. Findings:

The PEQ set at 25Hz full cut (-20) and Q = max (to maximise range either side of 25Hz impacted). Pretty negligible impact.

The GEQ lowest band = 50 Hz (- 12 full cut) I also took the liberty of applying a full cut to the 10khz top end. This on the other hand is VERY effective in taming the lows and pretty much eliminating the cab rattle I was getting.

I'll see if I can replicate on MS-60B which is on my mini (gigging) board; if so job done for now. However, I'm assuming that a dedicated HPF should be even more effective?

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6 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

No HPF on the Zoom B3n

What it does have is 1 band para EQ and a 7 band GEQ. I tried both just now. Findings:

The PEQ set at 25Hz full cut (-20) and Q = max (to maximise range either side of 25Hz impacted). Pretty negligible impact.

Assuming you're playing at in-house volumes, it would be very hard to discern any noticeable audible difference with a cut at 25 Hz. That's not to say that it isn't doing anything though ;)

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1 minute ago, Osiris said:

Assuming you're playing at in-house volumes, it would be very hard to discern any noticeable audible difference with a cut at 25 Hz. That's not to say that it isn't doing anything though ;)

Well it's not - the rattle is still there with the PEQ, so it's not being effective in taking out the high energy sub audio frequencies which I reckon are causing the physical shaking of the (heavy) Mesa combo; whereas the GEQ eliminates that rattle a treat.

Hopefully the patch on the EQ MS-60B will be as effective as the B3n GEQ...I'll find out later :)

 

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9 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

The GEQ lowest band = 50 Hz (- 12 full cut) I also took the liberty of applying a full cut to the 10khz top end. This on the other hand is VERY effective in taming the lows and pretty much eliminating the cab rattle I was getting.

But cutting at 50 Hz would be more noticeable which is why I suspect you found it to be more effective. 

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Just now, Osiris said:

But cutting at 50 Hz would be more noticeable which is why I suspect you found it to be more effective. 

Why?

Being noticeable (by which I assume you mean audible) has nothing to with physical vibration of an 80lb combo. That requires a lot of sound energy

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2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Well it's not - the rattle is still there with the PEQ, so it's not being effective in taking out the high energy sub audio frequencies which I reckon are causing the physical shaking of the (heavy) Mesa combo; whereas the GEQ eliminates that rattle a treat.

Hopefully the patch on the EQ MS-60B will be as effective as the B3n GEQ...I'll find out later :)

 

It sound like whatever is rattling is more susceptible to the relatively higher frequency in that case. But that still doesn't necessarily mean that the cut at 25 Hz is ineffective. 

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14 minutes ago, bartelby said:

This is the curve of the ZOOM B3 GEQ 12dB cut at 50Hz, all other freqs at 0. White noise going in, obvs.5a71b6c81a536_50Hz-12.jpg.bf7a5c6eea5366e4c02f3b25c1e978cd.jpg

Impressed, thanks! How did you mange to dig this out so quickly? :) 

You got one showing what it does with both the 50Hz and 10kHz are cut by -12 all other freqs flat?

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2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Impressed, thanks! How did you mange to dig this out so quickly? :) 

You got one showing what it does with both the 50Hz and 10kHz are cut by -12 all other freqs flat?

I just happened to have some real time analysis software running. 50Hz -12dB & 10KHz -12dB

50hz10K.jpg.6b3ac6a921381869129875d3d2f0aa02.jpg

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@bartelby Blood*y brilliant!!

I've got a B3n rather than a B3, but I'm guessing the patches will be pretty much one and the same.

Ok so how about the PEQ set at 25Hz full cut (-20) and Q = max (to maximise range either side of 25Hz impacted)?

Edited by Al Krow
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Cheers Bartelby - it's times like this with such quality input from you guys that I just LOVE this forum!

Ok that very nicely underpins what I was hearing with the Zoom B3n i.e. the GEQ is having a significant impact in getting rid of unwanted lows whereas the PEQ was pretty much doing zip.

Edited by Al Krow
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