USA Fender Jazz... Or is it?

[SamPlaysBass]

I've been offered a USA Jazz for a steal, so I went to look at it tonight. First impressions are positive - lovely Ash body on a maple neck and only a few cosmetic marks. Definitely hasn't seen much action, just the odd dent here and there. Guy who is selling it is nearly 70, bought it when he retired with the intention of learning but never got around to it. The neck feels chunkier than my MIM Jazz from 2007, a little bit nicer in fact. However I've noticed a few things that could be suspicious. First is the string-through body holes on the back - they don't seem to have been drilled in equal intervals. Next, there is a little gap between the pick guard and control plate, with some black adhesive underneath to fill in the gap. Anything fishy here? 

 

Bass itself sounds good. Can anyone verify if this all checks out with other Fender Jazz basses from the late 90s? Serial number begins with N8, making it a 98/99 model - guy selling it thought it was a year or two old when he bought it from a local shop 10 years ago. It was closer to 10 at the time, but in very good condition. 

[SamPlaysBass]

I've heard rumours that the music shop he bought it from may have slipped the odd fake in the rosters, hence the caution. Also, anyone know what model this is?

[T-Bay]

It's worth googling the serial number, there are a few that appear very regularly on copies. It won’t proove it’s genuine but could prove it’s fake.

Edited January 25, 2018 by T-Bay

[SamPlaysBass]

Hey T-Bay, cheers for the advice.

Googled the serial number on the headstock, and it shows it as a 1998/9. I can't really take the neck off the body to check the serial number under there, just hope that these features are either inline with other basses of this era or if they are warning signs!

[T-Bay]

When I googled one I was suspicious of I got about 100 hits for ‘is this genuine’ threads. It was good enough to have fooled a previous buyer sadly, who was very upset and out of pocket by more than a few quid.

[dannybuoy]

The bridge, case, headstock logo and neck plate all look correct. The uneven bits elsewhere could just mean it was a Friday afternoon job down the factory!

Edited January 26, 2018 by dannybuoy

[3below]

The gap at between the control plate and scratch-plate could be signs of a Friday afternoon job.  The uneven string ferrule spacing concerns me more.  I can't readily find when cnc started on Fender production.  However it is a mass produced guitar and we can consider three scenarios.  The ferrule holes could be CNCd when the body is shaped.  Should be perfect.  If the ferrule holes are not CNCd then I would be very surprised if they were not drilled using custom machinery, all four holes and steps at once in a jig.  If we are drilling the holes by hand I would be highly surprised if the holes were not located using some form of template at the least.  I may be completely wrong.

I would want unscrew the neck and have a look at the pocket, I would also want to look under the scratchplate / control plate.

[stingrayPete1977]

The gap between the middle strings looks a lot wider than gaps either side, has someone fitted the strung through bridge after? 

[Wilco]

I had a 2014 Jazz Deluxe which had a small gap between the control plate & scratch plate (well done Fender QC - a bloomin' Deluxe model!!), so I wouldn't be too concerned about that. As mentioned above, the body holes spacing would be more of a concern. If it was me, I'd be having the neck off to look for identifying marks in the neck pocket & a date on the end of the neck, & be checking the underside of the pickups & scratchplate for further identification.

[GBH]

Seems to have a 3 piece body, I would expect a 2 piece on a natural US fender. Also it doesn't look like ash, which it should be on a natural. 

[gjones]

It's a nice looking bass. It reminds me of the Jazz bass I knocked up with a MIJ Fender neck and a maple body, from a Vintage Modified 70s Jazz Bass. The ferrules could have been added at a later date, so that they could be used with a string through Fender bridge. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by gjones

[3below]

1 hour ago, gjones said:

It's a nice looking bass. It reminds me of the Jazz bass I knocked up with a MIJ Fender neck and a maple body, from a Vintage Modified 70s Jazz Bass. The ferrules could have been added at a later date, so that they could be used with a string through Fender bridge. 

Good thought on the later addition of ferrules.

[fretmeister]

Rule 1: If you are worried now you will never be completely free of that worry if you buy it.

 

So don't buy it.

[LeftyJ]

1 hour ago, GBH said:

Seems to have a 3 piece body, I would expect a 2 piece on a natural US fender. Also it doesn't look like ash, which it should be on a natural. 

I thought the body looked a lot like the soft maple ones on the Squier VM 70s Jazz.

 

[SamPlaysBass]

Cheers guys. I’m convinced the neck is genuine USA. The tuners, fretwork and serial number all check out. I did think about the Squier VM body, but I would assume that they would keep the Duncan Designed pickups rather than go to the effort of replacing them (although if the body didn’t have them to start, you’d have to chuck something in for the pickups!).

Contacted a local luthier who has an encyclopaedic knowledge of unusual guitars, and he seems quite positive that it’s all genuine. He mentioned that the string through body was new in the 90’s, so teething problems may have been evident. He also believes the scratch plate may have been changed from a white one to the black we see here.

 

I’ll pop back soon and ask to do some digging under the scratch plate and neck. The guy selling it has very little to hide, he’s very open and honest. I was thinking that maybe he bought a USA Jazz neck that someone had stuck on an SX Jazz Bass body. The mystery continues! 

[LewisK1975]

Yep, as others have said, if your are able to,  I'd have it in bits and be checking everything.

[Cato]

I don't know what the finish would have been on a US Jazz of that era but a Squier VM 70s has a thick polyester finish on the body, a lot more glossy and less subtle than anything you'll find on modern US models.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Cato

[Mudpup]

It’s a bit odd that the central string spacing looks out of bonk (too wide) but the ferrule spacing looks too narrow. 

I tend to agree with Fretmeister above, it would be niggling me forever that I haven’t got what I think I bought. The low price points towards something not being quite right and I would walk away from it.

[AntLockyer]

Run away

[mcnach]

1 hour ago, Williams4S said:

Contacted a local luthier who has an encyclopaedic knowledge of unusual guitars, and he seems quite positive that it’s all genuine. He mentioned that the string through body was new in the 90’s, so teething problems may have been evident.

 

I'm not sure that drilling 4 holes equally space is so complicated that you would expect 'teething problems' from a guitar manufacturer with decades of experience...

They look like were made by a previous owner, the rest of the bass does look ok to me... correct bridge and saddles, etc

[LeftyJ]

The string spacing on these bridges is adjustable, the saddles are part threaded so you can just lay the string in another groove. So the spacing is no issue

[Sibob]

Doesn’t look right to me, even the worst Friday after job at Fender wouldn’t result in ferrules like that!

I think a natural US model would also have more grain in the Ash, that looks quite plain really (for ash).

I’d leave it personally.

Si

 

[stingrayPete1977]

2 hours ago, LeftyJ said:

The string spacing on these bridges is adjustable, the saddles are part threaded so you can just lay the string in another groove. So the spacing is no issue

The inner strings look to be on their inner limits so the only option will be to spread the E and G out to the edges of the board, something looks wrong to me, maybe the bridge isn't assembled right and the ferrules drilled to suit. 

[AndyTravis]

I think it’s a real one. Just not a very good real one.

the gap and ferrules issue are things I’ve seen in some.

its a lot of effort to go to for very little reward, faking a very specific item. 

If it plays right and sounds right - the gap can be sorted...the ferrules can’t really.

[Marvin]

6 hours ago, fretmeister said:

Rule 1: If you are worried now you will never be completely free of that worry if you buy it.

 

So don't buy it.

This. Never buy anything if you've got doubts.