dave_bass5 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Al, I agree with you. I didn’t intend to infer you can get the DG tone for less, just that you get a lot for your money with the B3n compared to a hand built box that costs nearly £400 that does one type of effect. I don’t think the BDDI patch is as good as the real thing either, that’s why I still went and brought one (again) I understand you pay more for boutique, hand built boxes, and accept that if you want one you have to pay the going rate. Worth it to some, not worth it to others. I just don’t get why people get upset about those that don’t have a lot of money, or are disappointed about how high the cost is get upset. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, dave_bass5 said: A zoom B3n does way more than a B7K Ultra, yet cost under half the price. It includes a B7K and B3K sim.. Just saying. just because something cost a lot more doesn't make it better, and believe it or not, almost £400 is a lot of money for a box that makes a farty noise :-) When did I say more expensive makes it better? My post was closer to implying the opposite... I am merely stating that, cloning and patching aside as that is an entirely different ball game, if you want that particular piece of gear, you have to pay for it. They are hugely successful so their pricing structure clearly works, and taking inflation into account their pedals are certainly becoming cheaper and more accessible. Its easy to think that £389 is a lot of money, because it is, but the fact is a B7K was only a fraction less than this when it came out some 8 years ago. That's a whole lot of R&D for the money! Let's compare other pedal manufactures for costs in 2010 and 2018, I think Darkglass are doing very well indeed to keep things more affordable. If you can't afford the big guns, they offer B3K/Omicron/Vintage for around £225....the original B3K from many moons ago was £245 new at Bass Direct... Digital effects are CLEARLY more economical, although I am yet to hear any digital distortion that can hold a candle to analog and iv tried most, however I'd like to hear the Helix. They are otherwise excellent units in the most part and I would be happy to use a cheap digi for modulation, filter etc. But it really isn't a fair comparison, comparing a Zoom multi to Darkglass gear is crazy, they are not in the same market. Edited January 27, 2018 by Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 @Al Krow accept apologies..., take the drive bit out my post and it's more representative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverinebass Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Kev said: Digital effects are CLEARLY more economical, although I am yet to hear any digital distortion that can hold a candle to analog and iv tried most, however I'd like to hear the Helix. They are otherwise excellent units in the most part and I would be happy to use a cheap digi for modulation, filter etc. But it really isn't a fair comparison, comparing a Zoom multi to Darkglass gear is crazy, they are not in the same market. Kev, what I was saying was to have patches not digital distortion. Can you imagine how flexible that would be? My Sansamp PSA1.1 is all analogue signal chain with the only part of it being digital is the bit that reads the position of the knobs and stores the midi data. Best of both worlds and that's what I was trying to get across. Don't get me wrong, I've played most of the darkglass catalogue. It's great stuff, but because of its inability to recall anything it's limited as to its effectiveness. However, just salivate for a minute over the thought of a B7k ultra or alpha omega with patches. Wouldn't that kill? Wouldn't that be worth £500? As it is, I just feel it's 10% overpriced. Only my view though. It doesn't matter, as you say people will buy it at any price. Darkglass have done well creating a premium product, but I just think its too expensive. Comparisons made may or may not be fair, but it doesn't make the fundamental point being made any less valid that maybe, the stuff is a bit pricey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 L6 HX now showing on guitar guitar website at only £440. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Wolverinebass said: Kev, what I was saying was to have patches not digital distortion. Can you imagine how flexible that would be? My Sansamp PSA1.1 is all analogue signal chain with the only part of it being digital is the bit that reads the position of the knobs and stores the midi data. Best of both worlds and that's what I was trying to get across. Don't get me wrong, I've played most of the darkglass catalogue. It's great stuff, but because of its inability to recall anything it's limited as to its effectiveness. However, just salivate for a minute over the thought of a B7k ultra or alpha omega with patches. Wouldn't that kill? Wouldn't that be worth £500? As it is, I just feel it's 10% overpriced. Only my view though. It doesn't matter, as you say people will buy it at any price. Darkglass have done well creating a premium product, but I just think its too expensive. Comparisons made may or may not be fair, but it doesn't make the fundamental point being made any less valid that maybe, the stuff is a bit pricey. All valid points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) On 27/01/2018 at 17:30, dave_bass5 said: Al, I agree with you. I didn’t intend to infer you can get the DG tone for less, just that you get a lot for your money with the B3n compared to a hand built box that costs nearly £400 that does one type of effect. I don’t think the BDDI patch is as good as the real thing either, that’s why I still went and brought one (again) I understand you pay more for boutique, hand built boxes, and accept that if you want one you have to pay the going rate. Worth it to some, not worth it to others. I just don’t get why people get upset about those that don’t have a lot of money, or are disappointed about how high the cost is get upset. . I guess I tend to think of 'core' gear for a bassist as: bass + amp (ideally with a decent EQ) + cab + couple of leads + power cable. A very decent bass & rig can be had for £1,000 to £1,500, obviously less if buying second hand. That for me is the 'cake' and is 85% to 90% of what's needed. You couldn't get into any band without your core gear. Pedals are the 'icing' on the cake; the remaining 10% to 15%. They can be a really nice to have and / or a bit of a luxury. They can also be very expensive I agree. But as with any 'luxury' item you don't have to buy to play and no bassist is going to get fired because he doesn't have a Cali 76CB or a Strymon Timeline or a Darkglass AO pedal. I've managed to play in gigging bands for several years without ever using a pedal; that's hopefully going to change in 2018 'cos I think it will be fun and it will add some tonal colour and flavour to the mix. But I've tried where I can to source my pedals second hand and not necessarily go for the 'best' but to be content with 'pretty darned good'. Here's my mini board: should do everything I need (given the flexibility of the MS-60B, which is probably the single most value for money pedal available?) Total cost to put together (including board but not the PSU): £540 Edited January 28, 2018 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Well, predictably, I now have an Alpha Omega Ultra on order. I was holding off as I am used to using the AO before the B7KU, and doing so would render two of the new features (IR/Headphone) useless. I could upgrade the B7K to B7K V2 and get those features, however the upgrade to an AOU is much more substantial, having all that mid control is V exciting. However, after experimenting with the reverse order, I am getting some wonderful sounds the other way that will only be improved with the additional EQ control of the AOU. So it has been ordered and at least initially will be replacing my AO. I don't use cabinet simulation live, only for recording, so which order I use them in Live is still up for debate. However, for recording this will potentially replace my Omnicabsim. The other possibility here is the AOU replaces the B7KU AND the Omnicabsim, particularly if I experiment with the IR for live use to FoH. Now, the wait begins... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazBeen Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I am happily GAS free re the AOU, my normal AO is more than fine. But interesting bit of kit. I am quite a fan of DSP, but - for me - one nut that still needs cracking is dirt modeling. It sounds “close but no cigar”, it’s like driving a Ferrari Dino or Porsche 944. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just gone the other way and added the omicron to my board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Nice, tried stacking the two Alphas? I feel it wouldn't really add much using the same sides, but Omega going into alpha sounds interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 15 hours ago, Kev said: Nice, tried stacking the two Alphas? I feel it wouldn't really add much using the same sides, but Omega going into alpha sounds interesting... Yep I have that set up in a patch, it’s sounds great, it’s basically I sound I would have like to get from the ultra but didn’t look like I’d be able to, also just allows me to have one more raw sound in the omicron and one slightly more mid heavy sound in the omega. And the eqd westwood after either sounds great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 So, who has one? I am loving it, without question the most versatile DG and the 6 band EQ is excellent. IRs are completely new to me and its great to play with. Couple of fave's from what comes with the suite, however I have just downloaded the Ownhammer AMPG pack and now have a ton of different speakers/mics to test tonight. Intend to use it first time on Saturday so pressure is on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) Found a couple of really cool ones in the pack, all kind of ear fatigue though listening to so many variants, you come back to your narrowed down list and find you don't like some you liked and like others you have discounted! Most I enjoyed are Fat Mix but a couple of Fat Dyn too. Still not sure I prefer any to the Nolly Mega Meld though... Having fun all the same! Edited March 7, 2018 by Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverinebass Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 I played through the ultra version at the bass show in Saturday. I thought it was brilliant. I would say as well on an unrelated note, I was one of the first people in on Saturday and as such played the darkglass stuff while the place was quiet. The cabs are good. I tried a lot of permutations of fx and and settings and the vast majority of them sounded good. On the other hand, I was playing a dingwall, so stuff should sound good. It was also quite funny that the two said to me it was refreshing that I didn't immediately start slapping. I started playing something I was working on. "Tool isn't it?" No, that was me actually, I said. I've always liked darkglass stuff and for the sorts of things I do now it works perfectly. Then again, it should as I'm their target "progressive metal" bass player. I had a word about midi and they said they would see. Hopefully, but they seemed to suggest that I was in the minority wanting such functionality. That's a pity, but still, really good cakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nord1 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Any further user have a mini review.? thinking about pulling the trigger 😬 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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