FinnDave Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I'd have thought that the days "when bass players were generally the rumbling and inaudible poor relation of the band, plodding along in the background" were largely down to the amplifiers and speakers used back then, not the basses themselves. I play my Precisions through modern amps and cabs and they are far from rumbling or inaudible! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 13 hours ago, FinnDave said: The difficulty would be finding enough people to buy something that far removed from a standard Precision to make it worth the development and tooling costs. Playing it safe has worked well for Fender many years, and when they have changed a design even slightly, or even dared to bring out something new, sales are poor and they are soon dropped. Worked well? Reputation wise maybe. Not financially. They are 1 unexpectedly large heating bill away from collapsing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronJ Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, fretmeister said: They are 1 unexpectedly large heating bill away from collapsing. As I suspected... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, FinnDave said: I'd have thought that the days "when bass players were generally the rumbling and inaudible poor relation of the band, plodding along in the background" were largely down to the amplifiers and speakers used back then, not the basses themselves. I play my Precisions through modern amps and cabs and they are far from rumbling or inaudible! Certainly in the 60s the amplification equipment am didn't help but the issue still persisted in the 70s with much better amplification. I've not heard you but I regularly hear this sort of thing and it seems to persist on televised music as well - there's fitting in the mix and being inaudible! With one or two notable (and probably virtuoso) exceptions you'll be hard pushed to find a Precision in use in jazz fusion music, or even a Precision in use on funk music without something like an Alembic pre amp assisting. Edited January 17, 2018 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, drTStingray said: I've not heard you but I regularly hear this sort of thing. With one or two notable (and probably virtuoso) exceptions you'll be hard pushed to find a Precision in use in jazz fusion music, or even a Precision in use on funk music without something like an Alembic pre amp assisting. That's a fair point, but I don't play jazz fusion, and only a little funk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 The issue I've always had with Fender (and their counterparts) is reinvention of innovation. On the whole, the new* range is simply a re-churn of the same sixty year old designs; I would honestly love to know how many gazillion Precisions, Jazzes, Strats, Teles etc. Fender have sold since their 1950s inception as there must be millions in lofts, spare rooms, under beds and so on. *not strictly true. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said: The issue I've always had with Fender (and their counterparts) is reinvention of innovation. On the whole, the new* range is simply a re-churn of the same sixty year old designs; I would honestly love to know how many gazillion Precisions, Jazzes, Strats, Teles etc. Fender have sold since their 1950s inception as there must be millions in lofts, spare rooms, under beds and so on. *not strictly true. Even more so guitars - they didn't sell that many basses particularly in the first few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, drTStingray said: However if people generally want to hark back to 60s pop when bass players were generally the rumbling and inaudible . . . . You've just described far too many of the non Fender players. Most of the Fender players I saw weren't "rumbling and inaudible". The guys I played with always demanded more than a "rumble" from me. Edited January 17, 2018 by chris_b spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 As I said before, Fender aren't "churning" their designs because they want to, they have been forced into this in order to draw a line under their old under-performing selves and start afresh. I believe they now are lead by an ex Disney CEO who turned that brand around so they start the fight back from now. People who just want cheap basses have plenty of other options. Looks like the message is US Fenders will be competing with "better" basses. There are far fewer instruments being bought than 30 years ago so Fender has to target its market and start making products that will stand up. If they have learnt anything they will be improving the quality of their instruments. QC seemed to be one of the big complaints so get that right, add a couple of upgrades while you're at it, and they can start competing. Hopefully Fender can then step back from the brink. Of course the prices will go up, but if you get more bass for your money then that should be acceptable to enough bass players to make this work. Those who want something for nothing will have to look else where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c2 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Interesting developments on this thread. I don't necessarily keep up-to-date with all the developments in the industry so, while I appreciate any company no matter its size could end up vulnerable, I didn't know Fender was particularly in trouble. It seems, instrument sales have gone up and up to the point of oversupply (when I was a kid, most people had 1 (bass) guitar, nowadays it seems most people have >1 guitar); and that Fender's breadth of range and prices thus far, have kept them reasonably competitive. I guess we in the UK are something of an anomoly partly due to the £ vs Euro/dollar rate influencing prices. Also I'd disassociate myself with any pro-Fender vs anti-Fender sentiments - I fully understand that different things appeal to different people. And I sense I'm not a typical buyer, having only really bought one bass in the past 30 years! My instinct is that there's a place for an original (and an original but updated) bass guitar line (and electric guitars too) because unlike "high tech" stuff (for example, cars, operating systems, etc) there is nothing massively wrong with the design, they "got it right". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, paul_c2 said: ...there is nothing massively wrong with the design, they "got it right". That says it all, really. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.* *Or throw it out of a moving car, that'll really f*** it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 As others have said, I don't fully understand why they have dropped the AVRI range I suppose it did hark back to the past which is a bit negative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ndldean Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Who would have thought that at the end of the day it's all down to an individuals opinion! This is earth shattering! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twanger Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 58 minutes ago, discreet said: That says it all, really. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.* *Or throw it out of a moving car, that'll really f*** it up. Nah, you can throw a P bass out of a moving car. All you'll get is holes in the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 hour ago, discreet said: That says it all, really. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.* If it ain't broke, fix it until it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 22 hours ago, LewisK1975 said: Yep, looks OK to me, compare it to the 60's one above it in the article, you can see it's further towards the bridge on the 70's... yes, having compared the position relative to the second volume, it is indeed correct. I withdraw my scathing criticism, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 8 hours ago, chris_b said: You've just described far too many of the non Fender players. Most of the Fender players I saw weren't "rumbling and inaudible". The guys I played with always demanded more than a "rumble" from me. Yeah I'd agree that other makes were guilty of this but I witnessed and still do, plenty of woolly bass sound provided by Fender basses, or more precisely some bass players wielding Fender basses. That said there have been exceptions - Paul Turner is a V good example. Like you, I'm always asked to play bass so that the tonality of the notes can be heard. As I said, I will be checking these out - V nearly bought a pair of US Vintage (J and P) ones when they first came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 26 minutes ago, drTStingray said: Yeah I'd agree that other makes were guilty of this . . . I was going to mention a bass beginning with G but thought I'd better not. . . . ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 hour ago, chris_b said: I was going to mention a bass beginning with G but thought I'd better not. . . . ! No, best not mention them. I had a Guild once and it was very disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevsy71 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Odd how 'Original 60s' means '63 C neck shape, and 44mm nut but a fingerboard radius of 9.5" rather than 7.25". I suppose calling them '60s-ish' is less marketable... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 14 hours ago, fretmeister said: Worked well? Reputation wise maybe. Not financially. They are 1 unexpectedly large heating bill away from collapsing. As I understand it the Fender branded guitars and amps side of the business is doing OK. Their problems stem from the mad spate of acquisitions they went through in the 90s and early 2000s when they bought up a shedload of other guitar and amp companies accruing a massive amount of debt as they did so. To make matters worse they let a lot of those companies go to the wall, so effectively they took on a load of debt with no return for their investment, in fact it probably cost them more to wind those companies up than they ever made from them. If the rumours are true the debt is 100s of millions dollars and they can't even keep up with the interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project_c Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I like them. That 70s Jazz, natural with pearl blocks, nitro - I don't care if it's new or not, if I was after a jazz bass I'd be all over it, it looks perfect to me. Not everyone looking for a new bass wants cutting edge innovation. If I wanted cutting edge high tech, I'd buy a new mac and a copy of NI Reaktor, not a bass guitar. In basses I prefer classic and simple, and I like that Fender keep these things going. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 4 hours ago, project_c said: I like them. That 70s Jazz, natural with pearl blocks, nitro - I don't care if it's new or not, if I was after a jazz bass I'd be all over it, it looks perfect to me. Agreed. I had a hankering to buy that exact combination a year or so ago, and the only options were Sadowsky UV or Maruszcyzk. Nice to see the colour combo back in the Fender roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 8 hours ago, Cato said: As I understand it the Fender branded guitars and amps side of the business is doing OK. Their problems stem from the mad spate of acquisitions they went through in the 90s and early 2000s when they bought up a shedload of other guitar and amp companies accruing a massive amount of debt as they did so. To make matters worse they let a lot of those companies go to the wall, so effectively they took on a load of debt with no return for their investment, in fact it probably cost them more to wind those companies up than they ever made from them. If the rumours are true the debt is 100s of millions dollars and they can't even keep up with the interest. The attached article, though 5 yrs old, gives an interesting insight into Fender and its financial issues - citing competition with its own history as its biggest competitor - people wanting only to buy old ones rather than their new ones!! https://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/business/fender-aims-to-stay-plugged-in-amid-changing-music-trends.html?referer=https://www.google.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazWills Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Original or not, that LPB 60's Precision is calling to me! I like the tort too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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