Cuzzie Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 I spoke with the guy in email and he seems a really nice guy. He is in the middle of building a custom 15 for someone. I agree it’s the business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Here's the Gretsch 12 being demo'd nicely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I had one of Waterstone's TP12 basses. Despite all my efforts, I couldn't get anywhere near Tom Petersson's tone. One head, two heads, crossovers, clean, dirty. Nada. Anything above an A on the D strings just sounded unbass...the G string was almost out of bounds, period. I just couldn't integrate it into either of the bands I was playing in at the time. There's a Cheap Trick rig rundown on Premier Guitar where TP is using his Waterstones. The tone there is epic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, NancyJohnson said: I had one of Waterstone's TP12 basses. Despite all my efforts, I couldn't get anywhere near Tom Petersson's tone. One head, two heads, crossovers, clean, dirty. Nada. Anything above an A on the D strings just sounded unbass...the G string was almost out of bounds, period. I just couldn't integrate it into either of the bands I was playing in at the time. There's a Cheap Trick rig rundown on Premier Guitar where TP is using his Waterstones. The tone there is epic. I can get close by using light and very bright round wounds, a bass octave pedal, distortion, chorus and overdrive. Blue Edited January 15, 2018 by Bluewine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverinebass Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 50 minutes ago, Bluewine said: I can get close by using light and very bright round wounds, a bass octave pedal, distortion, chorus and overdrive. Blue I very much doubt that. Nothing sounds like a 12. The problem with Ament and Peterson's tone is that once the full band comes in the top edge gets wiped out. Listen to any other part of Jeremy barring the intro. He could be playing anything as all the cut is gone. It's why I use my Hamer with much more aggressive sounds than they do so you'll still hear the ring and chime with the full band. On its own it'll tear your head off, but in context, it just kills as there is so much harmonics and overtones added. Having played a few other 12's, the Hamer easily beats them on virtually all fronts. The fact that Peterson's Gretsch has a 4 saddle bridge and costs $12k is laughable in the extreme. Jog on. With Hamer no more (thanks Fender!) I'd be getting Tom Keonig to build one as having conversed with him he seems like a really nice guy who happens to make exceedingly good cakes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I wouldn't mind a B12A (so long as it was in the satin black Jeff Ament livery) or one of the EGC aluminium jobbies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverinebass Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said: I wouldn't mind a B12A (so long as it was in the satin black Jeff Ament livery) or one of the EGC aluminium jobbies. I've played one. They weigh a ton because the body is so large. Plus, they don't sound the same as the guts are totally different. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Ok, so here's my grenade... Why not get an 8 string rather than a 12 string and thicken the sound with a chorus pedal? That will get you 95% of the way there on sound (well as far as anyone in the audience in a live band mix is ever going to make out) and 150% of the way there on playability (so you'll be able to do a lot more with it) and the same on lower cost (and actually mean you can afford to buy one in the first place). Just saying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Would an 8 string really be cheaper? I looked around before for an 8 string (as I knew someone with one), and they actually seem slightly less common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Woodinblack said: Would an 8 string really be cheaper? I looked around before for an 8 string (as I knew someone with one), and they actually seem slightly less common. Hagstrom has an inexpensive 8 string. But it's not cool looking like the basses Tom Petterson plays. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 This one is from your favourite brand, currently in the FS, and hasn't shifted at £900 so will probably be available for less? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Oh thats lovely but something of that price I need to try to see how good it would be for me, and there aren't many around (and I am not planning on going to italy for a while) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 @Al Krow after launching your grenade I would like to know where you get your figures from? Why does 8 strings get you 95% of the way there with a chorus pedal? How do you know an audience may or may not know the difference? How do you quantify that it is also 150% more playable? Where have you got your costings from? USA bases, Indonesian, Korean, Luthiered? And for which makes Bas? Maybe I am missing a trick here, can you enlighten me....? BTW you do remember when we say 12 String we mean 4 courses and four fundamentals don’t you....?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, Cuzzie said: @Al Krow after launching your grenade I would like to know where you get your figures from? Why does 8 strings get you 95% of the way there with a chorus pedal? How do you know an audience may or may not know the difference? How do you quantify that it is also 150% more playable? Where have you got your costings from? USA bases, Indonesian, Korean, Luthiered? And for which makes Bas? Maybe I am missing a trick here, can you enlighten me....? BTW you do remember when we say 12 String we mean 4 courses and four fundamentals don’t you....?! Have you played a 12-string bass? It's really not a walk in the park and I think I'd agree with most of the comments made. It will, in general, be easier to play an eight than a twelve; less tension for your fretting hand, easier to bend. A chorus pedal will phatten things up and yes, your audience probably neither know or give a rats donkey if you're playing a four, eight or a twelve string bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Cuzzie said: @Al Krow after launching your grenade I would like to know where you get your figures from? Why does 8 strings get you 95% of the way there with a chorus pedal? How do you know an audience may or may not know the difference? How do you quantify that it is also 150% more playable? Where have you got your costings from? USA bases, Indonesian, Korean, Luthiered? And for which makes Bas? Maybe I am missing a trick here, can you enlighten me....? BTW you do remember when we say 12 String we mean 4 courses and four fundamentals don’t you....?! Dear Cuzzie - you are indeed missing a trick 1) Playability - I'd much rather be doing this on an 8 string rather than a 12 string, wouldn't you? 2) Price for neck through: https://www.andertons.co.uk/schecter-stilletto-8-string-bass-in-honey-satin Quite a lot of love for Schecters on BC you'll find (including from yourself I believe from a recent thread of yours?) - I'd certainly be happy to have that brand in my arsenal. How much is your Hamer 12? 3) Sound the same? See what this guy says at 4.15 to 4.25 in this clip (which took me like 30 seconds to find). Well I think he is saying EXACTLY what I'm saying (and it's kinda of obvious from first principles) about the double octave string having a chorus type effect. Quad erat demonstrandum bro, I believe? Edited January 16, 2018 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 On 1/13/2018 at 04:34, Hobbayne said: I vaguely remember an article in bassist magazine about a top bassist who commissioned his own 12 string bass. Can anyone help me as to who it was?? I think Tom Petterson commissioned Hammer for his 12 string bass back in the 70s. I'm pretty sure he mentioned it in the right run down clip. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 @Al Krow so sorry, i take it back. I got the wrong end of the stick, I thought you were basing your statements on personal experience not on video clips gleaned from YouTube or opinions from others regurgitated. @NancyJohnson nope not played a 12, but have played an 8 and I am fully aware it will not be a walk in the park, but I don’t find that daunting. I find it a challenge I am willing to take on. Bas, may well be spot on with his figures, but if so it’s by accident considering he assumed a 12 String was a 6 course single octave String bass about 2 weeks ago.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Cuzzie said: @Al Krow so sorry, i take it back. I got the wrong end of the stick, I thought you were basing your statements on personal experience not on video clips gleaned from YouTube or opinions from others regurgitated. @NancyJohnson nope not played a 12, but have played an 8 and I am fully aware it will not be a walk in the park, but I don’t find that daunting. I find it a challenge I am willing to take on. Bas, may well be spot on with his figures, but if so it’s by accident considering he assumed a 12 String was a 6 course single octave String bass about 2 weeks ago.... Haha like I've owned both a 12 string and an 8 string bass! Fortunately folk don't necessarily need to own the planets to work out how gravity might work. Some things are reasonably obvious. Now up to you to demonstrate (and I'll take any YouTube clip you like, given you've never played a 12 string bass either) that my premises are wrong on sound, playability and price. Over to you buddy 37 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said: Have you played a 12-string bass? It's really not a walk in the park and I think I'd agree with most of the comments made. It will, in general, be easier to play an eight than a twelve; less tension for your fretting hand, easier to bend. A chorus pedal will phatten things up and yes, your audience probably neither know or give a rats donkey if you're playing a four, eight or a twelve string bass. Cheers Paul - glad you can see a reasonable case when it is put forward! Edited January 16, 2018 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 16 hours ago, Wolverinebass said: I very much doubt that. Nothing sounds like a 12. You can doubt it, however I'm maintaing my position. I can get pretty close to Tom's sound. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 @Al Krow thanks buddy, one day you’ll realise the world is not flat.....but it’s not about convincing you fella! You also remember your other statement about no decent famous bassist ever using a 12, and it turns out one of your fave ones did......?! You know I love you Bas, there is nothing wrong with theories, and they get you 20% the way there, but sometimes you need something a bit harder, like practical evidence to get to your magical 80%. Of course i’ll let you know. And BTW you can Always get a better price point between the two types of basses (as in a 12 cheaper than an 8), depends what exactly you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 1/14/2018 at 15:03, Delberthot said: One thing about playing one is that you either have to keep it fairly simple of have a really good technique otherwise it ends up sounding like someone pushing a piano down some stairs Why have I suddenly got images of chimps, pianos, stairs and a nice cup of tea in my mind? I am impressed by the engineering behind bass twelves. That's as far as it goes for me I'm afraid. Five is more than enough for me to cope with. I'd imagine your damping skills have to be spot-on at all times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 18 hours ago, NancyJohnson said: I wouldn't mind a B12A (so long as it was in the satin black Jeff Ament livery) or one of the EGC aluminium jobbies. I have a B2A and a bottle of Tippex. When I know the cash is in the post I'll Tippex in the missing '1' and send it to you. Heeheehee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Woodinblack said: Oh thats lovely but something of that price I need to try to see how good it would be for me, and there aren't many around (and I am not planning on going to italy for a while) In which case how about a Schecter Stiletto 8 ? I'm almost tempted to get one myself Oh and apparently Eden are doing their I90 chorus pedal for a ridiculous £29 new! And you then have everything you need to do a very close approximation to a 12 string (that any audience is likely to ever notice anyway) and perhaps a lot more on top given then greater playability of an 8 in comparison to a 12. Edited January 16, 2018 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Bas, your 4 octave Pedals will get you 80% there, Plus which one of your bases would have to go out the window, rules are rules?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 34 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said: I have a B2A and a bottle of Tippex. When I know the cash is in the post I'll Tippex in the missing '1' and send it to you Heeheehee That's the Spirit. Oh teehee back at you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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