mcnach Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 38 minutes ago, mikel said: Possibly, but vinyl just sounds better, to me anyway. We were sold the myth that CDs were a better sound, and in the beginning of the CD sales pitch they were even said to be scratch proof. I think that myth was soon proven wrong. CDs have a certain sheen to the sound but are lacking in depth and "Heft" to me. Apologies, had to say it. (Heft, ha ha) It depends entirely on the production. Vinyl? it doesn't even have the lows as they've been removed and then added by your preamp (RIAA EQ curves)... A well produced vinyl and a well produced CD are both glorious. I'd personally take the CD (portability, resistance to damage -no immunity, but a lot more resistant-), but I loved the artwork on vinyl records... I have bought albums as a teenager sometimes based on the artwork alone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 A 12" LP in a nicely designed and printed sleeve as an artefact is a thing of beauty. As a delivery medium for music it's a piece of crap. Give me a CD or a lossless download any day. Maybe the way forward for selling music is to package your CD in a 12" vinyl type sleeve which gives you the best of both worlds? Wood id still used for solid musical istruments because it is still comparatively cheap as a material and it is easy to shape and finish compared with the alternatives. Plus most musicians are far too conservative these days. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 6 hours ago, BigRedX said: A 12" LP in a nicely designed and printed sleeve as an artefact is a thing of beauty. As a delivery medium for music it's a piece of crap. Give me a CD or a lossless download any day. Maybe the way forward for selling music is to package your CD in a 12" vinyl type sleeve which gives you the best of both worlds? Wood id still used for solid musical istruments because it is still comparatively cheap as a material and it is easy to shape and finish compared with the alternatives. Plus most musicians are far too conservative these days. the attraction is the thing and the physicallity of it. (and the tendency imperfection once it's been played a fair bit...) it's not music they are buying it's the whole physical, emotional process of getting a big slab of plastic and the artwork and everything that comes with it. Similarly the old wood and lacquer guitars is as much about the romance and style of the 'idea' of rock music and all our heroes and what they played as much as it the quality of the instrument itself. Without getting into the metal or carbon fiber we can show this with old wood basses.... Most music shops will sell Yamaha and Fender basses at a range of prices. I'm willing to bet that most of us would agree that comparing values the Yamaha equivalent will be the "better" bass... yet most folk will want a Fender... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 it Is the whole feel of something. It does not have to be perfect. Sometimes that crackle, tape delay makes a song. Something with flaws is why we like it, as it speaks to us. I have many flaws, some likeable, some not so, but hopefully my Mrs likes me flaws and all as our attributes and flaws dovetail with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, LukeFRC said: the attraction is the thing and the physicallity of it. (and the tendency imperfection once it's been played a fair bit...) it's not music they are buying it's the whole physical, emotional process of getting a big slab of plastic and the artwork and everything that comes with it. Similarly the old wood and lacquer guitars is as much about the romance and style of the 'idea' of rock music and all our heroes and what they played as much as it the quality of the instrument itself. Without getting into the metal or carbon fiber we can show this with old wood basses.... Most music shops will sell Yamaha and Fender basses at a range of prices. I'm willing to bet that most of us would agree that comparing values the Yamaha equivalent will be the "better" bass... yet most folk will want a Fender... Maybe it really is just me these days, but when I was first getting into music in the early 70s, one of the my main memories was that when my musical heroes made one of their infrequent appearances on TotP they would be wielding ever stranger custom guitars often from the work bench of a certain John Birch in Birmingham. Later on with the advent of punk and post-punk, sometimes the choice of instruments would be dictated as much by what was affordable as it was by what looked cool and interesting, but it also introduced me to the instruments of Microfrets, Burns, Hayman, Mosrite to name but a few. I always felt that if you chose to use an instrument that wasn't in the mainstream then maybe your music might be a little more interesting too and perhaps worth that extra effort to check out. Of course it wasn't always the case - no matter how cool Jerry Garcia's Travis Bean guitars looked it couldn't make me like the music of the Grateful Dead! 1 hour ago, Cuzzie said: it Is the whole feel of something. It does not have to be perfect. Sometimes that crackle, tape delay makes a song. Something with flaws is why we like it, as it speaks to us. I have many flaws, some likeable, some not so, but hopefully my Mrs likes me flaws and all as our attributes and flaws dovetail with each other. And sometimes those imperfections can kill the music stone dead. I've lost count of the number of times a record has been completely ruined for me by the acquisition of a scratch or piece of grit stuck in the grooves of a vinyl LP, usually on my favourite track, and more often than not at some point after the record in question has been deleted and therefore difficult to replace with a pristine copy. CDs and lossless digital files are the answer to this, I no longer have to worry that the act of playing the music I love might destroy it for ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 There's no reason I can see other than the feeling they bring , its emotional , just like the love of music . I personally get it and buy into it but can understand why some people don't. Although I like the look of roadworn or older mojo'd instruments , it's odd this doesn't apply to other things , for example you don't advertise a classic car with songs and worn paint as a positive thing , but we can with guitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 On 1/6/2018 at 09:30, Chewie said: Some people have style and money..... Some people have no style and no money...... Some people have style but no money...... Some people have money but no style..... Discuss? Can somebody please tell me what style is; I'm a bass player after all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 41 minutes ago, ead said: Can somebody please tell me what style is; I'm a bass player after all? Could they also explain what 'money' is, as I am a bass player as well.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Also, appear to be people around with all the gear and no idea as well!! Not necessarily bassists, but sometimes seems to apply to drummists - anyone else come across one bringing a gong to a gig but still not being able to play a straightforward groove? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, drTStingray said: Also, appear to be people around with all the gear and no idea as well!! 'twas ever thus, along with the people who have all the ideas and no gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misdee Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) On 1/6/2018 at 13:40, drTStingray said: Is this something that just applies to Fender P and J basses? You rarely hear people talking about vintage V modern Rickenbackers - or Wals - most of my Musicman basses are less than 15 yrs old and to be honest, though I've played old ones (indeed bought one new in the 70s) there is little difference (certainly on the 2 band Stingray) - of course the modern ones are built to modern QC and manufacturing tolerances, which like with every other 'consumer durable' makes them infinitely better in that sense. I mean who would use a vintage Hoover or quill and ink, or even a 50 yr old car on a day to day basis. Vintage is partially a fashion and nostalgia thing - there are plenty of people around who hark back to the late 50s and early 60s and cherish instruments from that period - I tend to hark back to the early 70s when most people (there are exceptions like Willie Weeks) would have been considered way past it and uncool playing a pastel coloured guitar - even the Shadows stopped doing that until they performed as an out and out nostalgia tribute in the last couple of decades. I have yet to play a 'vintage' instrument which speaks to me that strongly sonically and playing wise that I would part with large sums of money for it - I have looked off and on for 20 yrs or so. Do they look nice and are they full of nostalgia? Well the answer is yes for me - but to use as a day to day instrument then no. Are they more desirable than say a new Fender CS, new Musicman, Wal, Rickenbacker or Gibson - no they're not for me indeed some modern ones really do have that classic feel and look and are equally impressive aesthetically as far as I can see. I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with this view. I am sorry to say that I am old enough to remember when an increasing amount of the gear which is now considered "vintage" was new and current. When I see mid- to- late 70s Fenders selling for thousands of pounds I am a bit aghast. Then again, I think Mk 1 Wal Custom Basses are grotesquely over-priced at 4k+ on the second-hand market. Because I am well familiar with basses from that era they hold no particular mystique for me. At the risk of stating the obvious, the problem with a lot of vintage instruments is that they are old and worn. A lot of these instruments were made without any thought of longevity. No one suspected they would become holy relics. More often than not, once the romance has worn off you are left with something not particularly special, riddled with niggling problems that you have paid over the odds for. Edited January 9, 2018 by Misdee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 @Misdee - I do agree with most of what you say, even as a "vintage" owner. However, I would say that my 64 Precision is the least problem ridden bass I've owned. The neck seems to be the least susceptible to seasonal temp variations, the tuners the most solid for holding tune, and the output the most consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, Misdee said: Because I am well familiar with basses from that era they hold no particular mystique for me. At the risk of stating the obvious, the problem with a lot of vintage instruments is that they are old and worn. A lot of these instruments were made without any thought of longevity. No one suspected they would become holy relics. More often than not, once the romance has worn off you are left with something not particularly special, riddled with niggling problems that you have paid over the odds for. I think this is absolutely right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 First 'decent' bass I owned was an early 80s Precision, bought new in West London. Very disappointing, it would randomly cut out on stage and the problem "couldn't" be traced by the shop that sold it to me. Luckily it didn't put me off Fenders for life, I now have 7 assorted Fenders and all are totally reliable and stable, but none are more than 5 or 6 years old. Perhaps my children can benefit from them being vintage by the time I shuffle off (hopefully!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Misdee said: I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with this view. I am sorry to say that I am old enough to remember when an increasing amount of the gear which is now considered "vintage" was new and current. When I see mid- to- late 70s Fenders selling for thousands of pounds I am a bit aghast. Then again, I think Mk 1 Wal Custom Basses are grotesquely over-priced at 4k+ on the second-hand market. Because I am well familiar with basses from that era they hold no particular mystique for me. At the risk of stating the obvious, the problem with a lot of vintage instruments is that they are old and worn. A lot of these instruments were made without any thought of longevity. No one suspected they would become holy relics. More often than not, once the romance has worn off you are left with something not particularly special, riddled with niggling problems that you have paid over the odds for. Spot on! Don't really need to add anything further to this. Kinda what I have been banging on about about in terms of the risk of warped necks and worn electrics on really old basses (yes ok, there will be exceptions and clearly there are older basses which have been maintained in exceptional condition). You've articulated the point with much more (dare I say?) heft, than I managed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) The value of anything is only what somebody will pay for it, so if XYZ bass can be sold for £ABC pounds then that's its value, whether that's perceived to be good or bad value is sort of by the by.. Edited January 9, 2018 by ead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 @Al Krow you would have said something along the lines of if you had to pay for a date with a lady and maybe get some playtime would you prefer Joan Collins now or Scarlett Johansson. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cuzzie said: @Al Krow you would have said something along the lines of if you had to pay for a date with a lady and maybe get some playtime would you prefer Joan Collins now or Scarlett Johansson. To be fair, I don't think one could describe Scarlett Johansson as 'new', and in some photos appears to have a twisted neck. Edited January 10, 2018 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, Dad3353 said: To be fair, I don't think one could describe Scarlett Johansson as 'new', and in some photos appears to have a twisted neck. Is she wearing vintage clothes or some sort of custom shop reissue? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 55 minutes ago, drTStingray said: Is she wearing vintage clothes or some sort of custom shop reissue? 🤔 Clothes..? No, that's the photographer's handkerchief; she's not wearing clothes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 6 hours ago, Misdee said: I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with this view. I am sorry to say that I am old enough to remember when an increasing amount of the gear which is now considered "vintage" was new and current. When I see mid- to- late 70s Fenders selling for thousands of pounds I am a bit aghast. Then again, I think Mk 1 Wal Custom Basses are grotesquely over-priced at 4k+ on the second-hand market. Because I am well familiar with basses from that era they hold no particular mystique for me. At the risk of stating the obvious, the problem with a lot of vintage instruments is that they are old and worn. A lot of these instruments were made without any thought of longevity. No one suspected they would become holy relics. More often than not, once the romance has worn off you are left with something not particularly special, riddled with niggling problems that you have paid over the odds for. I agree too, I owned and played a lot of Fender Ps & Js back in the 60s and 70s. Some were cool but I never flipped over any of them. many of them had neck and intonation issues. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Was that the Porn Shop version of Scarlett......You see problems at any juncture. Personally I don’t mind a vintage instrument, Joan Collins may have scratchy pots, but you expect that from her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 34 minutes ago, Cuzzie said: Was that the Porn Shop version of Scarlett......You see problems at any juncture. Personally I don’t mind a vintage instrument, Joan Collins may have scratchy pots, but you expect that from her What about the jack socket, would that require switch cleaner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 @ead that socket was hammered long ago, it’s so seized up it’s like the tin man in wizard of Oz, you need more than switch cleaner there mate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftyJ Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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