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Fake logos on instruments


prowla

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Just now, discreet said:

I don't care how many times you quote rules to me - it's not a red herring, it is absolutely central to this entire thread  - I've asked you repeatedly to find me an example of a fake Fender, with a Fender decal, that was put up for sale by a BassChat member, on this site, with the deliberate intention of deceiving other members, which was then subsequently bought buy a member who thought it to be a genuine Fender.

But you won't. Because you can't. And you can't because there isn't one. Which means that the whole premise of your OP - 'We should instigate a policy that another website has implemented, i.e. no sales of fake instruments', is fatally flawed. It's totally unnecessary. Because no fake instruments have ever been sold on this site. It is a non-issue, and will remain a non-issue.

I've quoted you an instance where someone bought one, but you don't seem to want to accept that.

As for the instances of attempted deceit, I can't say.

But it's irrelevant anyway, as the above shows, it's the act of selling the item which is there in black and white.

I don't know why you keep on banging on about the same question, which you seem to think somehow trumps the law itself.

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2 minutes ago, prowla said:

I've quoted you an instance where someone bought one, but you don't seem to want to accept that.

As for the instances of attempted deceit, I can't say.

But it's irrelevant anyway, as the above shows, it's the act of selling the item which is there in black and white.

I don't know why you keep on banging on about the same question, which you seem to think somehow trumps the law itself.

That is because he constantly asks you where someone has sold a dud knowingly on here, but you keep going on about the mistake.. why don't you answer it.

Edited by timmo
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1 minute ago, timmo said:

A bit extreme, but no one goes to jail for snow on your car roof, and no one goes to jail for a fender logo on a squire

You may be right, but people do buy Fender logo'd Squiers thinking they are Fenders.

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1 minute ago, prowla said:

I've quoted you an instance where someone bought one, but you don't seem to want to accept that.

I don't accept it because it wasn't listed with the intention of deceiving another member. Therefore it doesn't count. You don't seem to want to accept that.

2 minutes ago, prowla said:

I don't know why you keep on banging on about the same question.

Because the question is central to the whole point of your thread. The answer to your original question, 'should we implement a policy of no fake instruments' is NO, because no fake instruments have ever been sold on this site - plus, any 'issue' regarding the policy is already covered by existing rules. Therefore the suggested policy isn't necessary. That clear enough for you?

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1 minute ago, timmo said:

That is because he constantly asks you where someone has sold a dud knowingly on here, but you keep going on about the mistake.. why don't you answer it.

It is a question challenging a strawman; people do build strawmen just to give themselves something to argue against.

The fact is that that it is the act of selling a fake logo'd instrument which is against the law and whether it was done having disclosed it or not is irrelevant.

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1 minute ago, prowla said:

It is a question challenging a strawman; people do build strawmen just to give themselves something to argue against.

The fact is that that it is the act of selling a fake logo'd instrument which is against the law and whether it was done having disclosed it or not is irrelevant.

Ahh. Hiding behind the question. I got ya

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1 minute ago, discreet said:

I don't accept it because it wasn't listed with the intention of deceiving another member. Therefore it doesn't count. You don't seem to want to accept that.

Because the question is central to the whole point of your thread. The answer to your original question, 'should we implement a policy of no fake instruments' is NO, because no fake instruments have ever been sold on this site - plus, any 'issue' regarding the policy is already covered by existing rules. Therefore the suggested policy isn't necessary. That clear enough for you?

Are you saying that no fake instruments, ie. ones bearing fake logos, have ever been sold via this site?

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1 minute ago, gary mac said:

Oh my word, I thought the neck shim thread got tedious but then I found this one. I almost wish that being tedious was a rule breaker, then I could lock it and throw it in to cyber space :dash1:

It is a bit of entertainment

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1 minute ago, discreet said:

Do you personally know someone who bought a Squier with a Fender decal on it who thought it was a Fender?

 

Did you see the recent ebay thread?

Does it matter whether I personally know them?

I do know someone who bought a Rickenbacker copy thinking it was a real one.

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1 minute ago, prowla said:

Are you saying that no fake instruments, ie. ones bearing fake logos, have ever been sold via this site?

An instrument with a fake logo is not a fake instrument -  if it has been declared as such. As for the sale of fake instruments that have been posted up for sale as real instruments, I say there have been none, given the lack of evidence to the contrary.

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1 minute ago, prowla said:

Did you see the recent ebay thread?

Does it matter whether I personally know them?

I do know someone who bought a Rickenbacker copy thinking it was a real one.

Not much the mods can do on Ebay. If they were, i reckon your mate would not have bought it

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2 minutes ago, prowla said:

Did you see the recent ebay thread?

I did not, I have no interest in eBay.

3 minutes ago, prowla said:

Does it matter whether I personally know them?

Do you know anyone who has bought a Squier thinking it was a Fender, or not?

3 minutes ago, prowla said:

I do know someone who bought a Rickenbacker copy thinking it was a real one.

OK, but obviously it wouldn't have been sold on here, would it?

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3 minutes ago, discreet said:

An instrument with a fake logo is not a fake instrument -  if it has been declared as such. As for the sale of fake instruments that have been posted up for sale as real instruments, I say there have been none, given the lack of evidence to the contrary.

No - you are inventing your own definitions.

The trademark law (quoted) identifies the issue as putting an unauthorised trademark on an item; that's what makes it a fake.

You don't have the opt-out of saying it's not genuine (which is just another way of saying it's a fake).

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6 minutes ago, discreet said:

I did not, I have no interest in eBay.

Do you know anyone who has bought a Squier thinking it was a Fender, or not?

OK, but obviously it wouldn't have been sold on here, would it?

You seem to be fixating on questions you are chucking into the mix.

Thinking about it, I know two people who've bought fake Rics; one via gumtree and one from "a friend".

There is a Squier with a fake Fender logo in the list I posted earlier.

I may know people who have got fake Fenders, but I don't have the info to hand.

Why do you keep asking these questions?

Do you think they excuse the act of selling fakes?

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3 minutes ago, prowla said:

You seem to be fixating on questions you are chucking into the mix.

Thinking about it, I know two people who've bought fake Rics; one via gumtree and one from "a friend".

There is a Squier with a fake Fender logo in the list I posted earlier.

I may know people who have got fake Fenders, but I don't have the info to hand.

Why do you keep asking these questions?

Do you think they excuse the act of selling fakes?

I think he is trying to point out that while they exist, it doesn’t present a problem on here. 

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5 minutes ago, prowla said:

Why do you keep asking these questions? Do you think they excuse the act of selling fakes?

No, I don't. I keep asking the questions because I see no evidence that there is a problem with fake instruments being sold on this site. If there were a such a problem, I'd agree that an addition to the existing rules may help. But surely it's obvious that there is NO such problem. I really don't know why you think there is.

5 minutes ago, T-Bay said:

I think he is trying to point out that while they exist, it doesn’t present a problem on here. 

Thank you, that's it in a nutshell.

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