Trace Elliott ELF getting hot

[bonzodog]

I have invested in an Trace Elliott ELF and am blown away by it's sound and power. Although we are only a 3 piece we have a loud drummer and play upbeat Mod and Punk songs. Using it tonight through my 2 rumble 12 inch cabs it easily held its own in a pub of 100 loud punters. I had the gain and volume at 12 o'clock and the sound was lovely with my MIM Jazz.

However my only concern was at the end of the gig the amp was red hot, almost to the point I struggled to pick it up till it cooled down.

Has anyone else used one at a gig yet and found the same? My previous class D amps have never had this issue

 

[la bam]

Ive not had one myself, but i have had the ashdown superfly which used to get really hot and ive just bought a little giant 1000 which some reports of getting warm.

Ive fitted 'taller' rubber feet to the base and the heat disperses so much better. The little giant has vents on top and non on the bottom, so youd think the heat would disipate upwards, but the bottom got hot. Adding the taller rubber feet allowed the heat to escape a lot better and now it doesnt even get warm.

[Chienmortbb]

These are all class D Amps with switching power supplies and although very efficient, the still produce heat. Usually the total combination is about 80% efficient so at 200 watts, total power is 200 X 100/80or 250 watts. So you still have to dissipate 50 watts of heat. If you can touch it  but it is very hot it is likely around 60C, at 70C you cannot keep your finger on it. Many Amps have their over temperature settings between 60-70 degrees. 

Make sure the space around the amp is clear to aid airflow but in general if the Amp is not cutting out, I would not worry.

[bonzodog]

That's great thanks. Both my MB500 and my markbass heads were warm after a gig but this was noticeably very hot. Didn't cut out so will just keep an eye on it and ensure it's got plenty of room around it.

[Count Bassy]

Assuming that you're running this at the same power output as the MB amps I'm not surprised. It will be dissipating a similar amount of power but into a much smaller volume & surface area, so it will run correspondingly hotter.

[Treb]

I looked at a picture of the amp's guts. There's a poor excuse for a heatsink inside, right underneath the tiny fan. A bigger box design would have allowed the inclusion of speakon connectivity, gotten rid of the hump on the top cover and resulted in a better thermal design. Small and light weight amps are nice but is there demand for an amp so small as the ELF?

[RandomBass]

If they had made it larger it could no longer be called an Elf. The next size up would have to be a Gnome, according to my extensive knowledge and research of Ben and Holly on CBEEBIES. 

Trace Elliot Gnome? No way José. Marketing would never allow such design principles to win through...

[bonzodog]

I bought this purely as a backup to my MB500 and from a size point of view I appreciate there is a limit to how small a class D amp needs to be. However a lot of the claims from other class D amps that they fit in your gig back are simply not true unless you have a very big bag. The Elf actually fits into the compartment of my gator jazz case where you normally put the strap along the side of the neck. Therefore it doesn't even need to go next to the headstock.

[Treb]

I was under the impression it is called ELF (Extremely Loud F*cker).

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

If an amp gets that hot and it doesn't have a decent fan it should. Even if it's not hot enough to cause short term damage it will probably cause long term damage. My Superfly was horrid, the aluminum handles/'heatsinks' didn't dissipate heat, they held it. I got rid of them, out the amp in a rack case with a 3" fan, no more heat.

[Delberthot]

On 23/12/2017 at 01:05, bonzodog said:

I have invested in an Trace Elliott ELF and am blown away by it's sound and power. Although we are only a 3 piece we have a loud drummer and play upbeat Mod and Punk songs. Using it tonight through my 2 rumble 12 inch cabs it easily held its own in a pub of 100 loud punters. I had the gain and volume at 12 o'clock and the sound was lovely with my MIM Jazz.

However my only concern was at the end of the gig the amp was red hot, almost to the point I struggled to pick it up till it cooled down.

Has anyone else used one at a gig yet and found the same? My previous class D amps have never had this issue

 

With gain and volume at 12 o'clock you could be giving it the full beans and that may be why it is getting hot

I have the input pad in on my amp and both volumes at 9 o'clock and it is incredibly loud. I couldn't imagine how loud it would be at a higher setting

 

[Kevin Dean]

My ashdown ABM1000 has 2 powerful fans for a reason I suppose , sounds like a 747 engines turning on & I love it .

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

3 hours ago, Delberthot said:

With gain and volume at 12 o'clock you could be giving it the full beans and that may be why it is getting hot

You can't tell anything definitive by the position of the knobs, as there are many other variables, for instance his Fender J passives. 

[chris_b]

I know nothing about the Elf, but I briefly had an SWR Studio 220 which, by the end of the gig, was hot enough to fry an egg. Steve Rabe said that was because the casing was designed to be part of the heat sink.

 

[Treb]

It's common knowledge that vintage SWR amps tend to run hot by design. AFAIK it doesn't have a built in fan to keep things cool. Having a preamp valve inside just adds to that warm and cosy feeling...

Edited December 25, 2017 by Treb

[Delberthot]

11 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

You can't tell anything definitive by the position of the knobs, as there are many other variables, for instance his Fender J passives. 

That was the reason I said that it "could" be running at or near maximum power output - some people believe that you have to have everything at maximum for an amp to put out it's maximum power but it depends on a lot of factors including what level is going into the amp in the first place

The Gibson EB bass that I briefly had had a hotter output than my Sterling and that was passive.

Plus with 2 8 ohm cabs the amp will be running at 4 ohms so will be working harder than a single 8 ohm cab and cramming everything into such a small enclosure can't be helping things either with little to no space to let the air circulate and cool things down

[chris_b]

I would expect the basic design of an amp to be that it runs at 4 ohms and 8 ohm would be half power, ie at 4 ohm it isn't working twice as hard but as designed.

Therefore if it's running hot at 4 ohms that is what they intended and expected the operating parameters to be.

Having said that, I like the fact that my Aguilar amps always run cold to the touch. That really noisy fan is probably helping, a lot.

Edited December 25, 2017 by chris_b

[bazzbass]

The ELF crams all the parts of an amp 3 times it's size with a tiny fan and you wonder why it's hot?

 

Physics.

 

get a little desk fan and point it at it

[VTypeV4]

I wouldn't worry - if it didn't distort or shut down then I'd assume it was operating within design parameters.

[Treb]

I don't know what kind of class D module the ELF uses but I assume it's got some protection (current, temperature, short-circuit) but as a general rule cooler is better with regard to electronics. I hope they spec'ed 105° capacitors instead of 85°C ones...

[la bam]

Sometimes with these its common sense - so much so you cant understand why the manufacturers didnt use much!

Run the amp again and see where it is hot. If its hot at the top and its just sat on your cab then that heat will dissipate upwards away from the amp to try and cool. If its red hot on the bottom and its sat on your cab then the heat cant escape downwards so it will have to try upwards and sidewards making the unit feel like twice as hot as one surface area cant get rid of the heat so other sides have to deal with the heat intended to leave from the bottom. ie the top is dealing with getting rid of the heat from the top AND bottom.

Ive never seen an elf in the flesh, but those rubber feet look very small - id be amazed if adding taller feet didnt help in some way or other to get the air moving under the amp to help the heat escape.

If you want to give it a try without any expense - put 4 small items under each corner to raise it up and balance the amp on top then run it and see if it makes a difference.

As i say, the taller feet i put on my lg1000 mean it never gets hot, yet without them you can feel the heat on the bottom plate straight away.

It might not work - but for 0p costs its worth a try.

I, like many people, sold my superfly years ago because of the heat worry.

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

2 hours ago, la bam said:

Sometimes with these its common sense - so much so you cant understand why the manufacturers didnt use much!I, like many people, sold my superfly years ago because of the heat worry.

I still have mine, but those aluminum heat retainers came off it before ever seeing a gig. One has to wonder if the designer had ever seen a heat sink, let alone understanding the concept. 

[fleabag]

I did the same to my Superfly and the heat was no issue. The digital clock whine on one channel was though, so it had to go

[prowla]

14 hours ago, bazzbass said:

The ELF crams all the parts of an amp 3 times it's size with a tiny fan and you wonder why it's hot?

 

Physics.

 

get a little desk fan and point it at it

In doing that, you're effectively increasing its size...

[bonzodog]

Thanks

This is the 4th class D head I've had and like I say I've never had this issue before to the extent when it was too hot to pick up. I am well aware of physics and putting the same components in a smaller area will likely increase the heat. I am just relying on the Trace designers to have already worked this out and I was just curious to see if anyone else had noticed it.

I guess it's a little early yet with them being so new. Will use it over the next few gigs to see