NS NXT dead / zero sustain

[fleabag]

I'm wondering if i need different strings.  The current set ( i have no idea as they were on the bass when i bought it )  so i'm told, are D'addario Trads.

If its any help, they have coloured silks at the tuner end - Green E,  Black A, Gold D, Red G

Other end is all blue, but with a thin gold thread pattern winding round the blue.  The open plucking is ok-ish, though the D is distinctly  deader than the E A and G

But fretting down kills any sustain to almost nothing, and the D again is worse here by some margin compared to the others.

Made many adjustments to  bass EQ and amp EQ but this proved fruitless, so i'm pointing the finger at the strings - any ideas for strings with more sustain and a more even volume between the 4 ? 

I read only about 30 mins ago, that someone had thought they had way too much sutsain from their NXT strings, and apparently, he had a 38"  scale set, instead

of a set for 41.73"  

I  guess there's some spare length on a 38" set, as he had them on this NXT.  Would this actually happen though - too much sustain due to strings being shorter ?

 

Edited December 16, 2017 by fleabag

[fleabag]

To help with my own question, the strings, so i have been told elsewhere, are D'addario Orchestras, and i need Spiros.

I solved the  volume problem on the D by  throwing the switch on the NXT, and this has evened up the strings,  but for sustain, i need a string swap

[fleabag]

[v8bass]

Gotta love a tumbleweed pic 

( like the windmills of my mind ) 

Almost certainly a string issue here FB ......( possibly with a bridge /piezo issue ) 

For me , Strings are almost the most critical part .. and a constant search / struggle /fun /PITA / expense...

( not sure orch strings are the ideal choice for EUB ) 

With my rather poor technique I also " compress " to a greater or lesser extent depending ..( assuming you have a note to compress ) 

The EQ ing of the eub or amp wont / shouldn't have much effect at all on any deadening or " killing " of a note 

Other things are " action " and ensuring the strings are " seated " and silks /windings not " lodged" or stuck ..either bridge or nut ends ..

Strings first and a good set up will make everything betterer .

Oh .. make sure youre not wearing the Marigolds when youre playing too !

Someone much more savvy will be in soon I'm sure 

Cheers 

Gary 

( EUB Hamfist ) 

 

 

 

 

[fleabag]

Thanks Gary

Yup, as i posted , someone elsewhere suggested a string change, and specifically Spiro Mediums, as i'm after much more sustain.

The current strings are seated ok,  the silk windings are also behaving, and as i stated, throwing the Pizz / Arco switch really sorted the uneven volume,

so i dont see a prob with the piezo.

The dead sustain still remained , however.

Just gotta stump up the coin for a set of  T.I Spiros.  £144 - ouch !  I suppose i could sell the D'addario Orchestras, though i'm not sure who would buy.

Most people seem to keep their strings, and at the prices, i dont blame them

[v8bass]

No experience of these 

but as an experiment maybe ? 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DOUBLE-BASS-UPRIGHT-BASS-FULL-SET-OF-NEW-STRINGS-UK-SELLER-FAST-DESPATCH/321826657830?_trkparms=aid%3D555019%26algo%3DPL.BANDIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151005190540%26meid%3D59862b9b39884f67a6c75fdb4bd8b961%26pid%3D100505%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226

Its really a minefield finding something that " Fits " ...couple that with "Good " technique too ...rules me out ..

Re Your Orch strings .. I reckon theres a few that would welcome that " Dull thump not much sustain  "  

Much luck on the quest 

Gary 

( finishing the festive sherry a week early ) 

 

[TPJ]

I’d stay away from strings that cheap like the eBay advert unless they were a reputable brand going second hand. The string game is indeed an expensive one. You can’t go too wrong with Spiro mitts or weichs. Evah’s and some of the  Innovations will work too. 

Good luck with the search. Hope you find what works best for you quickly. 

[Marc S]

Hi Fleabag,
Really laughed when I saw the tumbleweed pic! lol
Sorry I didn't see your post sooner....

I've not tried the D'addario orchestra strings, but if these are indeed the strings on your EUB, they are likely to be part of the problem
Sorry to state the obvious, but they will have been designed primarily for playing with a bow.
Are you intending to bow at all? If not, you may wish to consider some of the strings made by Innovation
In addition to the Silver or Gold Slaps, they make Innovation Honeys - these are higher tension than the Slaps and Rockabilly strings they make
but they're still relatively lower tension than several other strings. They're relatively inexpensive, but they're good quality and made in the UK

Keep your eye on the marketplace here, as DB strings do come up 2nd hand from time to time..... yes DB / EUB strings are expensive, but you can pick up a used set for a good price
Often, the player will fit strings, try them for a while, then decide to move them on and try something else.....

PS. Just had a thought, not having played a NS design EUB - will standard DB strings fit, or does the bass require something different / unusual?

Edited December 19, 2017 by Marc S

[fleabag]

On 18/12/2017 at 01:54, v8bass said:

No experience of these 

but as an experiment maybe ? 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DOUBLE-BASS-UPRIGHT-BASS-FULL-SET-OF-NEW-STRINGS-UK-SELLER-FAST-DESPATCH/321826657830?_trkparms=aid%3D555019%26algo%3DPL.BANDIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151005190540%26meid%3D59862b9b39884f67a6c75fdb4bd8b961%26pid%3D100505%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226

Its really a minefield finding something that " Fits " ...couple that with "Good " technique too ...rules me out ..

Re Your Orch strings .. I reckon theres a few that would welcome that " Dull thump not much sustain  "  

Much luck on the quest 

Gary 

( finishing the festive sherry a week early ) 

 

Thanks Gary -  appreciate you looking, but i will pass on the unknowns.  If i stick to well known brands and take advice from those who know much more than i do,  i should only have to buy one set and make them last.  Spiros are the most advised string by others, considering my criteria.  Thomann sell them at £132 + £10 P+P. The cheapest Spiros i've seen

( just starting on the Jack Daniels )

[fleabag]

4 hours ago, TPJ said:

I’d stay away from strings that cheap like the eBay advert unless they were a reputable brand going second hand. The string game is indeed an expensive one. You can’t go too wrong with Spiro mitts or weichs. Evah’s and some of the  Innovations will work too. 

Good luck with the search. Hope you find what works best for you quickly. 

Yup, gonna stick to those TPJ.  Seems for sustain, this is what is most recommended

[fleabag]

2 hours ago, Marc S said:

Hi Fleabag,
Really laughed when I saw the tumbleweed pic! lol
Sorry I didn't see your post sooner....

I've not tried the D'addario orchestra strings, but if these are indeed the strings on your EUB, they are likely to be part of the problem
Sorry to state the obvious, but they will have been designed primarily for playing with a bow.
Are you intending to bow at all? If not, you may wish to consider some of the strings made by Innovation
In addition to the Silver or Gold Slaps, they make Innovation Honeys - these are higher tension than the Slaps and Rockabilly strings they make
but they're still relatively lower tension than several other strings. They're relatively inexpensive, but they're good quality and made in the UK

Keep your eye on the marketplace here, as DB strings do come up 2nd hand from time to time..... yes DB / EUB strings are expensive, but you can pick up a used set for a good price
Often, the player will fit strings, try them for a while, then decide to move them on and try something else.....

PS. Just had a thought, not having played a NS design EUB - will standard DB strings fit, or does the bass require something different / unusual?

I love a tumbleweed pic. I posted in jest, natch 

Not heard of Innovation, Marc. I'm quite new to the EUB world.  I'll make some checks on Innovations. No bowing for me either - pizz only !

I'll keep my eye on the market, but the EUB section is quite niche, and the chances of a set of Spiros ( or whatever ) coming up is probably a long shot, and

i need to sell these Orchestras as well.  It would be nice to do a trade,  and both parties can save money, but waiting for that could be a long time.

Might just have to stump up the coin and get some in

PS i have no idea if standard DB strings fit. Perhaps someone more expereinced can verify.   Do acoustic DB strings have a lot of sustain ?

[Marc S]

I'd say most of the sustain will come from the bass, or the body / design of the bass itself, and how well this is set up, of course.
Some strings will suit certain basses better, and of course this will also depend on how you play and what style of play etc....
As your playing improves, your fingers will get stronger and sustain should improve too

Innovation strings are honestly really good, and less expensive than many other brands. Mostly, they don't bow too well though, down to tension and their construction / materials
(which is one reason I asked whether you intended to bow - I must say, I use silver slaps and they sound dreadful when bowed)
In addition to their Silver & Gold Slaps, the Rockabilly's and the Honeys, they also do a set called "Silvers" - I've got these on my KK baby bass, as it came with them on from the previous owner (Happy Jack)
I had intended to change them, but I quite like them. They're slightly harder material and slightly higher tension than the Silver Slaps, but they're good for pizz, and they've grown on me.....

[fleabag]

Just had a look at the Innovation website

Can only see SUPER SILVERS , which are under the Rockabilly section. Are these what you mean Marc ?

There are strings under the Jazz section too, but no Silvers. The Honeys you mention are under the Jazz section though

http://www.innovationstrings.com/products.html

 

[Marc S]

1 hour ago, fleabag said:

Just had a look at the Innovation website

Can only see SUPER SILVERS , which are under the Rockabilly section. Are these what you mean Marc ?

There are strings under the Jazz section too, but no Silvers. The Honeys you mention are under the Jazz section though

http://www.innovationstrings.com/products.html

 

Yes, I think they are the ones. As I say, they came already on the bass - so I didn't see the packaging
You may also wish to consider the Innovation Honeys though.... these have a synthetic core, but unlike their other strings, they have a metal outer / winding....
These strings work with magnetic type pickups, as the other types won't - being non-metallic. I'm not sure what the pickups on the NS are like?

I found the honeys to be higher tension than the other Innovation strings, but not as high tension as other metal wound strings.....
All depends on what you prefer, and in the case of magnetic pickups - what will and won't work with your pickups..
To learn to play Slap style DB, I fitted a set of Weedwackers - they helped start me off with slap stlye, but they're awful strings - so they weren't on my bass long

[SubsonicSimpleton]

If you go with spiros, bear in mind that the string set that most US double bassists refer to as mittels is the S42 4/4 set.

Maybe worth asking about this in the NXT megathread over on talkbass, as the design of the pegbox and tuners and the way the strings are fitted to the instrument means that you might run into issues with strings that you wouldn't encounter on a DB.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

You might also want to double check your string identification, this image on Bob Gollihur's website shows the difference between the specific NS strings Daddario make

The silk colours are the same as Daddario orchestral DB strings to my eye,  but the silks will be longer on a DB string.

[fleabag]

1 hour ago, Marc S said:

Yes, I think they are the ones. As I say, they came already on the bass - so I didn't see the packaging
You may also wish to consider the Innovation Honeys though.... these have a synthetic core, but unlike their other strings, they have a metal outer / winding....
These strings work with magnetic type pickups, as the other types won't - being non-metallic. I'm not sure what the pickups on the NS are like?

I found the honeys to be higher tension than the other Innovation strings, but not as high tension as other metal wound strings.....
All depends on what you prefer, and in the case of magnetic pickups - what will and won't work with your pickups..
To learn to play Slap style DB, I fitted a set of Weedwackers - they helped start me off with slap stlye, but they're awful strings - so they weren't on my bass long

Cheers Marc.  Pickup is Piezo only, no mags, so i assume it doesnt matter whether strings are metallic or non metallic ?

I'm not a slapper  

As for Spiros, can i assume they are metal wound ?

[fleabag]

36 minutes ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

If you go with spiros, bear in mind that the string set that most US double bassists refer to as mittels is the S42 4/4 set.

Maybe worth asking about this in the NXT megathread over on talkbass, as the design of the pegbox and tuners and the way the strings are fitted to the instrument means that you might run into issues with strings that you wouldn't encounter on a DB.

Cheers Sub - i have already found T.I. spiros at Thomann in 3/4 scale

[fleabag]

28 minutes ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

You might also want to double check your string identification, this image on Bob Gollihur's website shows the difference between the specific NS strings Daddario make

The silk colours are the same as Daddario orchestral DB strings to my eye,  but the silks will be longer on a DB string.

Thanks again Sub

 

I'll check my strings again

[SubsonicSimpleton]

1 minute ago, fleabag said:

Cheers Sub - i have already found T.I. spiros at Thomann in 3/4 scale

4/4 mittels on a 3/4 bass are only a little more tension than 3/4 weich - 3/4 mittels might be heavy going both for your hands and the machine heads.

 

This set of used strings on ebay is definately spiro mittels (easily identified by the ball ends and silks) but no idea whether they are 3/4 or 4/4 (no affiliation to seller)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Used-Double-Bass-Strings/282772814352

I would definately have a good read of that EUB thread before committing though - if regular 3/4 strings were a good idea, Bob Gollihur would probably be recommending tried and tested sets on his website, and he is only listing the strings specifically made for the NS EUBs, so I expect that there may be issues with DB strings causing failure of the EUB tuners or the through body stringing and small posts on the tuners killing strings. Stringzone have NS strings listed at £120, so you have options.

[fleabag]

I never thought about mediums being too high tension for my EUB.  Maybe  Weichs ( light ? ) would be the way to go

It may be worth shooting Gollihur an email and ask him what he reckons on fitting Spiros on a EUB. 

[fleabag]

Had a reply form Bob Gollihur and he advised  Weichs if fitting Spiros

 

Also, i have read in the archives from Philw and Stingray pete that 3/4 scale Spiros dont fit the NXT. I should buy  4/4 Spiros

 

And the silks on mine are shorter

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by fleabag

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Happy to hear you've sorted the fine detail - now you just need to get on with making some music.

[fleabag]

Indeed !

I've had an offer to try some used GHS crossovers - a kind offer of free strings from someone in the Netherlands

Nice

Also Mark Gollihur replied again, and informed me that the correct length of Spiros would be S42 and these would be 4/4 scale

 

[fleabag]

Also, found some NS Design Contemporaries  ( D'adds ) on Amazon for £80 delivered. Last set they had so snapped 'em up