Spector v Rickenbacker

[prowla]

4 hours ago, Jus Lukin said:

They'd make an absolute killing if they put the basses in a more affordable bracket, even if that was a grand or so. I'd have picked one up ages ago, but their prices have always seemed to keep rising ahead of my ability to save that much up!

Patriotism doesn't make sense to me at all, but US patriotism is particularly odd in a new country built on immigration from so many parts of the world, and where pure capitalism is the over-riding system. I suppose that for many, any ideology still has to bend to favour the individual who follows it- but that's politics...

My point was going to be that all those original Fenders were built by a Mexican workforce in California, so the notion that nationality has any bearing is silly. They could probably build identical Ricks in Asia which would work out cheaper because of the economic variables alone.

EDIT- Echoing cetera really, but he posted while I was typing!

Rickenbacker's business model is fine; they're keeping the family business going and have hands-on control over the production.

I don't see why they need to change.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[bumnote]

20 hours ago, leftyyorky said:

 

Btw the irony about the USA is that I cant understand the big patriotism stuff, lots of great instruments are made in other countries,Japan, Germany, Korea, and even Indonesia (my Squier) so I dont think the USA has a monopoly on good instruments, and I  wish Rickenbacker corporation would take there blinkers off and go down the Fender/ Gibson route and produce more affordable instruments by outsourcing.

Rickenbacker have got it right. The products hold their prices and there is a waiting list. They make a profit, probably more profit on some items than Fender get as a selling price.. Fender on the other hand have been reputedly in debt for years.

 

[leftyyorky]

I see your point Bumnote, I remember reading that John Hall would not borrow money, ask for government help, or outsource (with the exception of such things as Schaller tuners etc) and indeed they are in quite an enviable position compared to Gibson and Fender, who , as you say are both supposed to be in serious debt. I just feel that there would be a market for a budget range to enable people to have a start on the ladder towards owning their dream instrument.

On a personal note, I have never owned a Gibson or Fender, but I bought a Squier VM Jazz bass as I like the jazz neck, and for £240 it is punching way above its weight! As a result I would seriously consider a Fender jazz as a possible next purchase, although it would probably be a Japanese one as I see nothing but good reports about them

I am not anti American guitars, I have a Rickenbacker and a Dean (albeit made in Korea or somewhere) its just that I  personally dont feel that the USA has a monopoly on quality instruments,  and I would dearly love RIC to widen their vision a little to allow more people in. 

As a footnote, back in 1976 as a spotty 18 year old I was going to put myself into debt to buy a Rickenbacker 4001, Sheffield branch of Carlsboro Sound Centre ordered in one of only 2 that were coming to the UK. It was £520!  When it arrived it had a right handed neck with upside down headstock and looked terrible, so despite charging about 35% more, it wasnt even a true lefty. As a result I bought an Ibanez copy(£180) and owned that for over 20 years.  Had a budget Rickenbacker been available I would have bought it.

[bumnote]

funny I have a cs64 which is an odd one they did modeled on McCartneys bass, but the right hand model has an upside down [ie left handed] neck which they did as a limited edition of a few years ago.

Anyway, if I were in John Halls position, I too would vigorously try and protect my trademark so if anyone wanted to copy it it would be difficult, why should someone else make money out of my design.

Why would I want to make cheaper versions of my product. Im sorry you cant afford one of my instruments, it only makes it more desirable.

You dont expect to see Mclaren or Ferrari trying to produce a car to compete with a Mondeo, they can sell as many of what they make as they want to..

In most product types, there will always be people who are prepared to pay for that perceived top quality product. Rolex watches, Saville row suits, Gucci handbags, nike trainers, you name it, there are people who want to be seen with, or just because they can, buy that very expensive product.

Sell you a cheap rick, Nah, I want to get as much as I can for it.

 

 

[Mastodon2]

49 minutes ago, bumnote said:

trying to produce a car to compete with a Mondeo, they can sell as many of what they make as they want to..

 

 

 

Interesting way of putting it. Given that McLaren and Ferrari's prestige comes from their performance and luxury (or perceived quality), it would be more appropriate for Spector to be likened to Ferrari or McLaren. The Rickenbacker would be closer to a Rolls Royce - terrible performance despite the high price tag, but people will pay it because it's a got the RR badge on it.

A bassist who wants a well made bass with a forward-thinking ergonomic design, a pickups and preamp combo that is versatile and high quality will go for the Spector. A bassist who wants a Rickenbacker probably doesn't care about any of that and will go for a Rickenbacker and be chuffed with the name on the headstock and the way it looks in the photos from the latest gig at the Dog and Bollock. Both manufacturers know their market and sell accordingly.

[prowla]

2 hours ago, Mastodon2 said:

Interesting way of putting it. Given that McLaren and Ferrari's prestige comes from their performance and luxury (or perceived quality), it would be more appropriate for Spector to be likened to Ferrari or McLaren. The Rickenbacker would be closer to a Rolls Royce - terrible performance despite the high price tag, but people will pay it because it's a got the RR badge on it.

A bassist who wants a well made bass with a forward-thinking ergonomic design, a pickups and preamp combo that is versatile and high quality will go for the Spector. A bassist who wants a Rickenbacker probably doesn't care about any of that and will go for a Rickenbacker and be chuffed with the name on the headstock and the way it looks in the photos from the latest gig at the Dog and Bollock. Both manufacturers know their market and sell accordingly.

Going with the car analogy, I'd put the Ric alongside a Lambo or Lotus: a bit rough around the edges but full of personality and capable of the most exhilarating performance in the right hands.

(Then again, I've got a Ric and a Lotus...)

Edited December 23, 2017 by prowla

[prowla]

(I just noticed that bumnote seems to have a rather exhilarating sports car too...)

[Mastodon2]

7 hours ago, prowla said:

Going with the car analogy, I'd put the Ric alongside a Lambo or Lotus: a bit rough around the edges but full of personality and capable of the most exhilarating performance in the right hands.

(Then again, I've got a Ric and a Lotus...)

Lamborghini are anything but rough around the edges these days, they're owned by Audi under the Volkswagen Audi Group and they wouldn't accept the dodgy Italian quality of old. I don't know which Lotus you own but they've massively improved in the last few years too, though price increases have reflected this. Both companies are making the best cars they've ever made (from a technical, engineering and quality perspective). I'm not sure this fits with Rickenbackers design philosophy, their designs look outdated from an ergonomics and function perspective even by the Fender P bass.

 

If they were a car, they might be Morgan - outdated designs sold to a market that is specifically looking for for style and feel over performance.

[Billy Apple]

But the 3 Wheeler has the S&S X Wedge engine in it, and I think S&S more akin to Spector.

S&S porn ... Phwoor!

 

[White Cloud]

I have owned 3 Ricks and a couple of Spectors over the years. Here is my honest, objective observations;

Spector - modern, ergonomic design, comfortable, flexible powerful pickups, great range of tones, small bodied, great hardware,  easy to adjust, light weight (ish)

Rick - none of the above :-) 

The Rick has one sound and it does it well. I personally think a lot of people play them because a lot of people played them. Logic would say there is absolutely no contest and the Spector is the obvious decision all day every day...then again logic often goes out the window when it comes to the performing arts.

[prowla]

25 minutes ago, Mastodon2 said:

Lamborghini are anything but rough around the edges these days, they're owned by Audi under the Volkswagen Audi Group and they wouldn't accept the dodgy Italian quality of old. I don't know which Lotus you own but they've massively improved in the last few years too, though price increases have reflected this. Both companies are making the best cars they've ever made (from a technical, engineering and quality perspective). I'm not sure this fits with Rickenbackers design philosophy, their designs look outdated from an ergonomics and function perspective even by the Fender P bass.

 

If they were a car, they might be Morgan - outdated designs sold to a market that is specifically looking for for style and feel over performance.

Mine's an Elise - get it on an A-road and it just makes you smile.

Same with a Ric - it's the only bass that does that for me.

So, not wanting to push the car analogy too far, they have a similar effect on me.

Current production Ric quality matches anything else.

The style, feel and performance of a Ric matches anything else.

If you don't like them, it's your personal preference, which is fine, but it's not fact.

I can walk in to a shop and walk straight past all of the other brands, but I'll stop at the Rics.

To me, most other mainstream basses look samey, be it Fender-alikes or Warwick/Spector/blobby looking ones.

That's my preference.

[prowla]

16 minutes ago, White Cloud said:

I have owned 3 Ricks and a couple of Spectors over the years. Here is my honest, objective observations;

Spector - modern, ergonomic design, comfortable, flexible powerful pickups, great range of tones, small bodied, great hardware,  easy to adjust, light weight (ish)

Rick - none of the above :-) 

The Rick has one sound and it does it well. I personally think a lot of people play them because a lot of people played them. Logic would say there is absolutely no contest and the Spector is the obvious decision all day every day...then again logic often goes out the window when it comes to the performing arts.

My opinion of your opinion...

• The Ric is as modern as any piece of wood with 4 strings on it. I do have a couple of Status basses whose composition might make them more modern.
• I find the Ric comfortable to play and the neck is a delight, all the way up the fingerboard.
• The pickups are as powerful as is required; some actives may have higher output (eg. my John East), but that's what volume controls are for.
• The idea that Rics don't have a range of tones is amusing; it's just that their most well known one is better than anything anybody else does.
• The Ric's body is small compared to many instruments (eg. I have a Music Man and P- & J- basses.) and is thinner than pretty much all of them.
• The Rics have great hardware, finished to a high standard.
• The gripe about being easy to adjust is a red-herring - how many times do you adjust a bass once it's set up? The effort of taking it to a tech is more than that required to do the job itself.
• Rics are no heavier than a lot of other instruments, but I suppose if you contrast them with a violin bass (I wonder if that's where the myth came from?) then any solid bodied instrument would be.
• The Ric does its signature sound well, but the built-in mute, push/pull pot, stereo outputs, tone controls, option of playing fingers or plectrum give a wide range of options.
• The fact that a lot of people play Rics could be because a lot of people like playing Rics; they certainly helped bring the bass to the fore in music.

So, whilst you are entitled to your opinion and what its its associated logic leads you to conclude, it differs from mine.

I can't say that my logic would ever lead me to consider a Spector as an instrument of choice; it's not even in the contest, not something I would consider.

(The only thing I would say a Ric is not so good for is slap'n'pop bass, but many folks don't like that anyway.)

 

 

 

[White Cloud]

7 minutes ago, prowla said:

 

So, whilst you are entitled to your opinion and what its its associated logic leads you to conclude, it differs from mine.

 

And that my good fellow is what keeps the world turning!  ...subjective experience and subsequent preferences. 

Religion and the emotional defence of ones own preferred brand of bass guitar - the source of almost every human conflict since grass has been growing and strings have been plucked lol.

[miles'tone]

The Spector is the "better" bass hands down. A Ric 4003s would be harder to walk past without picking up for a tinkle.

 

 

[prowla]

6 hours ago, White Cloud said:

And that my good fellow is what keeps the world turning!  ...subjective experience and subsequent preferences. 

Religion and the emotional defence of ones own preferred brand of bass guitar - the source of almost every human conflict since grass has been growing and strings have been plucked lol.

Yep - god forbid everbody liked the exact same bass and wanted to play it in exactly the same way!

Me, I've got Rics, Statii (4 and 5-string), fretless P-bass, a J-bass with a Warmoth body/Status Graphite neck, a 70s Zenta, a Music Man 5-string, Fender parts to build a Precision, a Warwick neck & parts waiting for a body (I've had a couple of Warwicks), and probably one or two others, and the one which inspires me is the Ric.
But there is no one ring to rule them all and these definitive declarations that one is better than another are really just personal preference.

For me, the Ric has the best looks, sound and neck of any bass, regardless of brand; it's a design classic like the Coke bottle, the Aeron chair, the E-type Jag, the MiniMoog, the Fender Strat, the Gibson Les Paul, the Kenwood Chef, the Leatherman knife, the Smiley logo, the Dualit toaster, and many things you'll find on an internet search which stand out from all of the other examples of their ilk.

I think the only telling thing is where folks need to justify their preference by saying that brand whatever is better than a Ric.