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Live bands compress bass - since when?!


Al Krow

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3 hours ago, jacko said:

I've found the paragraph on the Threshold control to be a bit confusing with what seem to be conflicting instructions.....

THRESHOLD:This control determines the attack threshold at which the compression effect will be triggered. Basically, it is a sensitivity control with 0db being the least sensitive and -40db being the most sensitive. The more you turn the control clockwise, toward -40db (maximum sensitivity), the lower you are setting the threshold - and the softer (lower) the signal strength has to be before the compression effect is triggered. Think of it as a ceiling you are setting that the dynamic events in your playing cannot pass above.
The setting of the THRESHOLD will likely want to be set differently for different types of playing styles and techniques. For example the THRESHOLD setting might want to be set lower (toward -40db) for finger-style playing than it would for thumbing or plucking where the attack transients and output from the strings is higher (assuming you want to trigger the compression on just the dynamic peaks). If you want the compression on all the time, set the THRESHOLD lower still and you will trigger it so that any input from your instrument will activate the compression.

FWIW I have both at around 9pm and the light doesn't flicker much when I'm playing

Seems a convoluted way to describe what the control does, compared to the excellent column about Compression in the January edition of Bass Guitar Magazine... :) :) :) :) 

 

/BlatantPlug

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10 minutes ago, Osiris said:

Getting your B's and D's mixed up again? 

Hah - you spotted that link far too quickly! Not sure whether your particular fetish has any linkage to baldness but, if so, it would explain a thing or two...

But please let me assure you, good sir, that whilst the krispn and I may have exchanged electrical items and the occasional fluids over the years these have been limited to bass pedals and his own tasty beer.

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On 09/01/2020 at 07:27, Cuzzie said:


how are the drummers snare/toms etc tuned and how do they play -

Oh man I've dedicated so much time to getting really good at tuning drums, especially for recording. I can tune a kit from scratch in about 15 minutes with new heads top and bottom now, and it will sound absolutely massive.

There's an old adage, stinky poo in stinky poo out, which is more true for drum sounds than anything else!

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11 minutes ago, 51m0n said:

Oh man I've dedicated so much time to getting really good at tuning drums, especially for recording. I can tune a kit from scratch in about 15 minutes with new heads top and bottom now, and it will sound absolutely massive.

There's an old adage, stinky poo in stinky poo out, which is more true for drum sounds than anything else!

Agreed - so important 

 

That’s Usain Bolt standards!

Edited by Cuzzie
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1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

My compressor keeps it simple... too simple?

 

 

image.png.d7a5092b1f1db87f210947c0c38d94ef.png

Not so much too simple as just obfuscated.

What does sustain do?

Is it a function of the threshold?

Is it instead an input level (very similar to a threshold but subtly different).

Or is it a function of the ratio?

Or is it somewhere in between, all clever and stuff? In which case, how does that work exactly?

And who decided on the release time/curve?

I find these kind of compressors very frustrating! At least Joe Meek compressors have a ratio and a threshold, albeit named wrong, so they then need a manual that tells you what they are actually doing by using the normal name for it (slope == ration) - FFS!

 

 

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43 minutes ago, 51m0n said:

Not so much too simple as just obfuscated.

What does sustain do?

Is it a function of the threshold?

Is it instead an input level (very similar to a threshold but subtly different).

Or is it a function of the ratio?

Or is it somewhere in between, all clever and stuff? In which case, how does that work exactly?

And who decided on the release time/curve?

I find these kind of compressors very frustrating! At least Joe Meek compressors have a ratio and a threshold, albeit named wrong, so they then need a manual that tells you what they are actually doing by using the normal name for it (slope == ration) - FFS!

 

 

and then you get a company whose compressor controls work in the opposite direction "to that of modern compressors". A certain, well known studio classic! 

Edited by Dood
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2 hours ago, steve-bbb said:

but then aren't old dead lifeless strings a form of physical/mechanical compression?

Please, please don't give me any more excuses not to change my old bass strings 😁

Btw if Jamerson's playing could in any way be associated with a 'dead / lifeless' tone then I suspect we all need to give up right now!

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As a hobby bassist without gigs (I haven't played to an audience other than OM nights since '87) I am finding this interesting.  I was following the thread a while back and during its revival, it is particularly relevant to what I am doing at this time.

Because I don't get exposure to the variety of gear that experienced members do, it's a bit of a hit and miss affair, knowing what I want and more to the point what I need from effects in general so I bought a Zoom B3 to dip my toe in the water, so to speak.  It emulates a variety of effects and amplifier/cab combinations.  I assume that these emulations are sufficiently faithful to the original as to give me a rough idea of how the real things might sound.  Among the effects is a range of compressors.  I am currently trying these out.

There are five compressors included as listed below.  Could anyone suggest which of these emulations would be worth spending most time with to get the hang of what compression is doing for me?

  • 001 OptComp - This compressor is in the style of an APHEX Punch Factory
  • 002 D Comp - This compressor is in the style of the MXR Dyna Comp
  • 003 M Comp - This compressor provides a more natural sound (No real life equivalent referenced)
  • 004 DualComp - This is a compressor which allows separate settings for the low frequency and high frequency range
  • 005 160 Comp - This compressor is in the style of the dbx 160A
Edited by SpondonBassed
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3 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

As a hobby bassist without gigs (I haven't played to an audience other than OM nights since '87) I am finding this interesting.  I was following the thread a while back and during its revival, it is particularly relevant to what I am doing at this time.

Because I don't get exposure to the variety of gear that experienced members do, it's a bit of a hit and miss affair, knowing what I want and more to the point what I need from effects in general so I bought a Zoom B3 to dip my toe in the water, so to speak.  It emulates a variety of effects and amplifier/cab combinations.  I assume that these emulations are sufficiently faithful to the original as to give me a rough idea of how the real things might sound.  Among the effects is a range of compressors.  I am currently trying these out.

There are five compressors included as listed below.  Could anyone suggest which of these emulations would be worth spending most time with to get the hang of what compression is doing for me?

  • 001 OptComp - This compressor is in the style of an APHEX Punch Factory
  • 002 D Comp - This compressor is in the style of the MXR Dyna Comp
  • 003 M Comp - This compressor provides a more natural sound (No real life equivalent referenced)
  • 004 DualComp - This is a compressor which allows separate settings for the low frequency and high frequency range
  • 005 160 Comp - This compressor is in the style of the dbx 160A

If an amp doesn't have a built in compressor like my Mesa head i use my Aphex Punch Factory pedal. I find it very simple to set up with led's indicating how much compression you are using (marked Drive on the pedal) and the output level which i set to equal volume when the peal is switched off. My Roland mfx  GT6B has various compressors too but i just selected one from the list i recognised with the factory suggested settings and just add it as and where required. I haven't used the Roland in about 5yrs so can't remember any more details than that i'm afraid.

Dave

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Anyone interested in the compression used in Motown recordings check out this link, especially the box about the kit in snakepit

 

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/four-tops-reach-out-ill-be-there-classic-tracks

A whole lot of compression as a result of a tube console, tape and even available mics...

Also the di that Jameson used, was a tube di...

They also said used Fairchild compressors for mastering.

Edited by 51m0n
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3 minutes ago, 51m0n said:

Anyone interested in the compression used in Motown recordings check out this link, especially the box about the kit in snakepit

 

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/four-tops-reach-out-ill-be-there-classic-tracks

A whole lot of compression as a result of a tube console, tape and even available mics...

Also the di that Jameson used, was a tube di...

They also said used Fairchild compressors for mastering.

According to the pedia of Wiki there's a style of compression known as 'motown style'.

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32 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

If an amp doesn't have a built in compressor like my Mesa head i use my Aphex Punch Factory pedal.

Both of my combos have built in compression.

On the Laney it's a function of the gain control with an LED to indicate when it is working and no other means of adjustment other than an on/off button and the gain knob itself.  The Ashdown has an on/off button and a dedicated knob.

They're okay but I want to understand what's going on a bit better by playing with Threshold, Ratio and Level controls as these three seem to represent the main functions of a compressor.

Edited by SpondonBassed
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25 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

According to the pedia of Wiki there's a style of compression known as 'motown style'.

Yep it's a form of filtered parallel compression that acts as a kind of exciter, used almost exclusively on vocals IIRC. Dead easy to do in a DAW.

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