Why does my J Bass sound more ballsy than my P Bass?

[AidanB]

Ok, first of all, I should say that I've only recently got the bass bug after decades of acoustic and electric guitar playing so my experience of all things bass is not massive.

The first decent bass I bought a few months ago is a 1996 MIM Fender Jazz with EMG pickups. It's quite heavy but I love the tone of it and really get a lot out of playing it. I recently picked up a lovely white 2012 MIM P Bass because I thought I needed a P Bass sound as well as. The thing is that it doesn't give me the same enjoyment/feedback as the J. It feels somewhat lifeless. I wondered if it was the strings so swapped out the (newish) round wound strings for a set of D'Addario Chromes that had come off another bass. That was an improvement though I'm still not sure about flat wound strings. With either set of strings the bass seems to lack punch or balls, to put it another way. It's quite a bit louder than my Jazz bass but doesn't sound as deep (bassy). I'm wondering what could be the issue here? Can anyone help me out?

[ZilchWoolham]

Without having heard them, I'm going to guess that what you're hearing is really just the tonal difference between a Jazz bass with (presumably) active pickups and a passive Precision. Ballsy and punchy means different things to different people, but a Jazz bass normally has a sharper attack than a Precision,  and with EMG's that difference should be even clearer. It makes sense that your Jazz seems a bit deeper, too.

Do you usually play with both pickups turned up? This scoops a lot of the mids out of the sound, leaving more room, so to speak, for the lows. With the bridge pickup solo'd, you're getting mostly a lot of (very) high mids. As a contrast, the Precision is quite heavy on the low mids. To me, a Precision is punchier than a Jazz, but that's because I define punchy as having a beefy, prominent midrange. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by ZilchWoolham

[AidanB]

Thanks for your post. The EMG pickups on the Jazz bass have some sort of preamp with a battery but use the original volume and tone controls as I understand it so I think active though the guy who sold it to me said that the battery/preamp was just to boost the signal a bit because the EMG pickups had a low number of windings, so I'm not totally sure.

On the Jazz I mostly play with just the neck on full and the tone down a fair bit but no bridge unless I'm attempting something more funky lol. My only amp at the moment is an Eden EC10 and I add a bit of the enhance control which scoops the sound a bit but I would expect a similar effect on both guitars, it seems to have more effect on the Jazz than the Precision. Would it help if I did a quick recording of each bass? I think you're right about it being the tonal differences between j and P but I was expecting the P to be a much more solid bass sound by which I think I mean with a lot more low end bass. 

 

[Danuman]

Perhaps you could try making a comparison without plugging the basses in first? Just to see how they resonate and how that compares to what comes out of your amp.

I have a 2008 MIM P, and the actual construction of the guitar sounded a little lifeless. On top of that, the original pickup was all low-mids and little else, which combined with flatwounds got a little too muffled... so I stuck with roundwounds and I swapped out the pickup and the bridge and thankfully things are starting to sound much better.

I play an Eden as well and funnily enough I like a bit of the Enhance to bring some depth to the P, but it doesn’t agree at all with my Jazz.

[thegummy]

Jazz basses have more low end, precisions are more mid rangey.

If you're comparing them played alone then a lot of people prefer the sound of a j bass, it's in a band that the p comes into its own.

[Conan]

9 hours ago, AidanB said:

The EMG pickups on the Jazz bass have some sort of preamp with a battery but use the original volume and tone controls as I understand it so I think active though the guy who sold it to me said that the battery/preamp was just to boost the signal a bit because the EMG pickups had a low number of windings, so I'm not totally sure.

 

The seller was correct (although EMG do make some active pickups as well, but it's most likely that you have a J-set and they are passive with a preamp). 

Also bear in mind that Fender have notoriously variable quality control! Some instruments are just better put together from better parts than others, and no amount of modding will make a bad one as good as a good one. It's frustrating, but maybe try and borrow another P bass from someone (or try some in a shop). It may just be this particular P that has this particular problem. From a personal point of view, I have always found P basses more variable than Jazzes.

[AidanB]

Thanks for all your responses, it's making it all a bit clearer. 

I've attached a quick recording of both guitars playing snippets of different styles. In each case the J bass is first then the P bass. The recording shows the character of the two different guitars (especially as the P has flat wound strings) but I don't know that it captures exactly what my ears hear in the low bass spectrum. Recorded with an SM57 Beta in front of amp into Logic with no added processing.

Jazz vs Precision.mp3

[Conan]

8 minutes ago, AidanB said:

Thanks for all your responses, it's making it all a bit clearer. 

I've attached a quick recording of both guitars playing snippets of different styles. In each case the J bass is first then the P bass. The recording shows the character of the two different guitars (especially as the P has flat wound strings) but I don't know that it captures exactly what my ears hear in the low bass spectrum. Recorded with an SM57 Beta in front of amp into Logic with no added processing.

Jazz vs Precision.mp3

They both sound fine to me! The strings do make a massive difference to the tone though, so it's not really a fair test. 

[Tonteee]

Sounds like the difference between a J and a P, to me.  I think you also enjoy playing the J more.

 

I thought the P sounded well, by the way.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Tonteee

[Conan]

Just now, Tonteee said:

Sounds like the difference between a J and a P, to me.  I think you also enjoy playing the J more.

Good point! I've never yet found a P that I enjoy playing as much as a J. My search continues though...

[Tonteee]

1 minute ago, Conan said:

Good point! I've never yet found a P that I enjoy playing as much as a J. My search continues though...

+1 to that...

[Lozz196]

6 hours ago, thegummy said:

Jazz basses have more low end, precisions are more mid rangey.

If you're comparing them played alone then a lot of people prefer the sound of a j bass, it's in a band that the p comes into its own.

Nail, head. Couldn`t have put it better myself, and in fact was my own exact experience when I bought my first Precision.I`d grwon up listening to Bruce Foxton, JJ Burnell etc make such great sounds with their Precisions but when I played mine, at home through my practice amp I was underwhelmed. And then I took it to band practice and it all made sense.

The Jazz on its own is a wonderful sound, much more articulate, better defined low end, add to that active pickups it`s going to have a good all round sound. Plus some players are better suited to certain types of instruments, our old producer once commented that I`m a Precision player through and through, probably why a great sounding Jazz or Stingray is made to sound so poor in my hands.

[Rikki_Sixx]

11 hours ago, AidanB said:

The EMG pickups on the Jazz bass have some sort of preamp with a battery but use the original volume and tone controls as I understand it so I think active though the guy who sold it to me said that the battery/preamp was just to boost the signal a bit

I don't mean to derail the topic but is there somewhere I can find out more about this? It sounds interesting! I always assumed a pre-amp would mean active pickups - does this just allow for better control with passives?

[Conan]

5 minutes ago, Rikki_Sixx said:

I don't mean to derail the topic but is there somewhere I can find out more about this? It sounds interesting! I always assumed a pre-amp would mean active pickups - does this just allow for better control with passives?

http://www.emgpickups.com/bass/j-models/active/jset.html#info

Hmmm... it seems I may have been incorrect in assuming that the pickups were passive... 

[chris_b]

You're asking why a car with a turbo can out accelerate a car that doesn't have one.

Preamps always add more beef to your sound. EMG replacement pickups usually add a ton more. And then you're wondering why the tone of a "reasonably" priced Mexican made bass doesn't compete! You're not comparing apples and apples.

Upgrade the P bass pickups and you'll move it into the same league as your J bass. Good P bass pickups can be passive and they will still compete in terms of tone. My passive P bass has Seymour Duncan pickups and it is a beefy as my active J. 

 

 

 

[ZilchWoolham]

8 hours ago, Conan said:

The seller was correct (although EMG do make some active pickups as well, but it's most likely that you have a J-set and they are passive with a preamp). 

 

5 hours ago, Rikki_Sixx said:

I don't mean to derail the topic but is there somewhere I can find out more about this? It sounds interesting! I always assumed a pre-amp would mean active pickups - does this just allow for better control with passives?

 

5 hours ago, Conan said:

http://www.emgpickups.com/bass/j-models/active/jset.html#info

Hmmm... it seems I may have been incorrect in assuming that the pickups were passive... 

The active/passive terminology can be a bit confusing as a bass can have active pickups but a usual passive tone circuit, which is what it seems Aidan has, or active pickups with an active pre-amp/tone circuit, or passive pickups with an active pre-amp/tone circuit. EMG's active pickups all have a built in pre-amp that doesn't offer any tone-shaping, but is simply there to boost the signal to a usable level. Passive pickups work on the principle that with more windings, the output is increased, the mid-range is boosted and the highs and (I think) lows are tamed.  Because an active pickup uses a fewer number of windings and instead uses their own preamps to boost the signal, the output is high while being significantly more detailed in the far reaches of the audio spectrum. 

This, as far as I know, all happens within the pickup itself. Then the signal can be fed either to a normal passive tone stack (EDIT) tone/volume combo, directly to the output, or to an active EQ system. Some of the basses we call active, though, don't actually have active pickups, but rather traditional pickups fed into an active EQ. I'm hoping I didn't just add to the confusion here!  

Edited November 29, 2017 by ZilchWoolham

[ZilchWoolham]

7 hours ago, AidanB said:

Thanks for all your responses, it's making it all a bit clearer. 

I've attached a quick recording of both guitars playing snippets of different styles. In each case the J bass is first then the P bass. The recording shows the character of the two different guitars (especially as the P has flat wound strings) but I don't know that it captures exactly what my ears hear in the low bass spectrum. Recorded with an SM57 Beta in front of amp into Logic with no added processing.

Jazz vs Precision.mp3

It definitely sounds like an active Jazz and a passive Precision, and as a matter of fact, I prefer the Precision!  I think, at least for now, you just prefer the sound of a Jazz bass. But, like chris_b said, there are many variations on the Precision, and you could certainly find one that's closer to your ideal tone. 

[AidanB]

Thanks everyone for your posts, I’ve learned such a lot today, what a brilliant (and friendly) forum!

I’m thinking new strings 1st, probably Fender 7250M and then maybe look at alternative pickups with more low end. Any suggestions on pickups?

Cheers, Aidan

[stingrayPete1977]

I can't get on with P basses or passive basses, I've decided to just accept it and not try again. 

Active jazz basses are awesome 

[Conan]

11 hours ago, AidanB said:

Any suggestions on pickups? Cheers, Aidan

There have been a number of threads on this subject - for example 

From personal experience, I love EMGs and the "hot" pickup from GFS is great for the money - http://www.guitarfetish.com/GFS-Pro-Series-HOT-P-Bass-Pickup-Pickup-OUR-BEST-_p_10978.html

Edited November 30, 2017 by Conan

[ead]

One other possibility is the pot values.  Active EMG pickups normally have 25k ohm pots in the volume/tone department.  Passive pickups normally use much higher values normally 250k ohm in their harnesses.  You said the J bass has a battery so you might consider getting a harness with these lower value pots.

[progben]

Both sound alright to me from the sample! As others have said, a P will definitely come into its own when with a band/recording.

Personally I use a Warwick Dolphin Pro II at home which has the MEC Js and its brilliant for solo play. I'd never take it to band practice though, just doesn't sound right.

[DiMarco]

P-basses shine in the mix of instruments. If your band has lots of overdriven guitar noise, the P will be clearly audible and work like glue between the drums and guitars where the Jazz gets drowned in that same setting.

For the same reason "smiley face" or "scooped" EQ settings on amps are nice solo because of that ballsy thump, but do not work well in a band setting.

The secret is in the midrange frequencies.

 

[machinehead]

4 hours ago, DiMarco said:

P-basses shine in the mix of instruments. If your band has lots of overdriven guitar noise, the P will be clearly audible and work like glue between the drums and guitars where the Jazz gets drowned in that same setting.

For the same reason "smiley face" or "scooped" EQ settings on amps are nice solo because of that ballsy thump, but do not work well in a band setting.

The secret is in the midrange frequencies.

I agree with this except that a J bass using only the bridge pickup  won't be totally drowned out although, yes, the J bass will have more lower frequencies than the P in this situation and fewer mids. Both sound great, just different.

Frank.

4 hours ago, DiMarco said: