Interesting FRFR story..

[Newfoundfreedom]

10 minutes ago, Bigwan said:

 

I think you may be reading what you want to read there boss... I didn't see any reviews of that cab for bass when I looked at it a few months back. The one that does now said the speaker didn't work for them.

 

 

Yes... Well I'd take that with a HUGE pinch of salt at that price if I were you...

 

But don't take our word for it! Get a couple bought and come back and tell everybody how they fair at WAR volume!

 

War volume. 😅

 

I'm not in a death metal band. We're a small venue, chilled out folkish band with one guitar and a ukulele. I don't think we're going to be knocking any walls over. 

 

As for ordering one. I think I may well just do that. Nothing to lose with Thomann's return policy. 

 

I'll be happy to review it as and when. As you say. There aren't any reviews for bass so it would be an interesting experiment if nothing else. Although there are plenty of bass players using the 12 inch Headrush, which is a very similar animal in a very similar price range, and the general consensus on that is extremely positive. 

 

 

[jezzaboy]

I have used my RCF 715 on stage at the Hard rock in Glasgow. Whilst all the out front sound was provided by the rather nice pa, the on stage volumes were still quite high as I play with 2 dinosaurs who use 100 watt valve Marshall`s to "get their sound."

 

The RCF handled the gig easily and I would have no issue in using it as my main sound source on a pub type gig. MY RCF is around £550, about the same price as a Fender Rumble 500 and I bought this as they get a good name for this type of speaker. I cannot comment on the speaker that you are thinking of buying but before getting the RCF I looked at the 15" version of the HB powered speaker but as I had the budget, I decided to go with my present one.

 

The good thing about Thomann is you can buy it, try it and if it doesn`t suit, send it back. Got to be worth a shot.

[Newfoundfreedom]

5 minutes ago, jezzaboy said:

I have used my RCF 715 on stage at the Hard rock in Glasgow. Whilst all the out front sound was provided by the rather nice pa, the on stage volumes were still quite high as I play with 2 dinosaurs who use 100 watt valve Marshall`s to "get their sound."

 

The RCF handled the gig easily and I would have no issue in using it as my main sound source on a pub type gig. MY RCF is around £550, about the same price as a Fender Rumble 500 and I bought this as they get a good name for this type of speaker. I cannot comment on the speaker that you are thinking of buying but before getting the RCF I looked at the 15" version of the HB powered speaker but as I had the budget, I decided to go with my present one.

 

The good thing about Thomann is you can buy it, try it and if it doesn`t suit, send it back. Got to be worth a shot.

There's a couple of the 15 inch versions second hand local(ish). I was initially tempted, but I'm put off by the 20kg weight. 

 

My whole mindset behind possibly buying one is to downsize my rig to do less humping around. If I bought one of the 15's I may as well just take one of my cabs. ☹️

[Jack]

4 hours ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

Not even close. There's absolutely no comparison between the the FRFR I listed, and a 75w practice combo.

 

You obviously didn't read any of the reviews. 

 

If you think that the low price is still a marker of low quality in today's market, then you've never used any Harley Benton gear. 

 

What makes you think that they aren't comparable? 

 

Just trying to help man. 

[Chienmortbb]

17 hours ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

 

 

 

I'm still struggling with the concept that a plastic full range speaker can replace a wooden, purpose built bass cab. Especially in the bass response and lower frequencies. 

 

 

Well they can but most of the current moulded cabinets are a compromise, and in general, the lower the cost the higher the  compromise.

 

To make a moulded cab as strong and non resonant as a well designed wooden cabinet means a great deal of expense and a lot of engineering. Look at the amount of bracing you can see externally on these. However every cabinet is a compromise and some moulded cabinets work well. Incidently these weigh 17Kgs as a passive cabinet and cost about £500 new.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Chienmortbb

[Newfoundfreedom]

14 minutes ago, Jack said:

What makes you think that they aren't comparable? 

 

Just trying to help man. 

Thanks. 

 

What I mean is a 75w practice combo is nowhere near enough for even a small gig, and wouldn't be much good outside of bedroom levels. Whereas a 1400w (even though that would be peak value) would, and is by all accounts of the reviews and user experiences, plenty loud enough for even a moderately sized pub gig. 

 

 

[dave_bass5]

24 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

There's a couple of the 15 inch versions second hand local(ish). I was initially tempted, but I'm put off by the 20kg weight. 

 

My whole mindset behind possibly buying one is to downsize my rig to do less humping around. If I bought one of the 15's I may as well just take one of my cabs. ☹️

But you wouldn’t need to take an amp, so you are still downsizing what you would take. Also (slightly) less set up time. 

[Jack]

20 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

Thanks. 

 

What I mean is a 75w practice combo is nowhere near enough for even a small gig, and wouldn't be much good outside of bedroom levels. Whereas a 1400w (even though that would be peak value) would, and is by all accounts of the reviews and user experiences, plenty loud enough for even a moderately sized pub gig. 

 

 

That's kind of my point to be honest! How can Thomann do it but Hartke can't? Yes yes economies of scale and such but it's not like Larry is hand building amps in his garage these days either.

 

 

I know I know, to be honest I bet the reality is somewhere in between what I think and what you think.

 

I love good, high quality, cheap gear. I own a Harley Benton bass and a The Box (also a Thomann brand) pa cab, both of which are superb and punch well above their price tags. I also love and champion both Studiospares and Orchid here all the time, both cheaper brands. However I think you're asking a lot to get what's essentially a full stage rig for £200 brand new. 

 

By the sounds of it your volume requirements are low and as you've mentioned Thomann have an excellent returns policy. Go for it, just have reasonable expectations of what any £200 amp can deliver.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Jack

[Frank Blank]

1 hour ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

As for ordering one. I think I may well just do that. Nothing to lose with Thomann's return policy. 

 

I'll be happy to review it as and when. 

 

I'd be very interested in hearing your views on it. In my experience cheaper FRFR speakers can rarely handle bass, they appear to be pieces of equipment where you get what you pay for. RCF, QSC and Yamaha seem to cut it where very little else does. Very foolishly I recently sold all my basses, amplification (I have a few leads left!) and now I've seen the error of my ways 🙄 I am looking to replace it all, I could get two of those with change out of the price of a QSC.

[Newfoundfreedom]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

But you wouldn’t need to take an amp, so you are still downsizing what you would take. Also (slightly) less set up time. 

Yeah true. That's one of the reasons I was looking at FRFR. But I've got the Bugera Veyron amp, which is lightweight class D and fast more power than I'm ever likely to need. So the amp is actually the least of the problems. Finding a decent, portable cab without spending a fortune is more of a challenge. 

 

I might just have to hump the heavy cabs for a little while longer and save up for a PJB C4 compact. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Newfoundfreedom

[jrixn1]

36 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

Yeah true. That's one of the reasons I was looking at FRFR. But I've got the Bugera Veyron amp, which is lightweight class D and fast more power than I'm ever likely to need. So the amp is actually the least of the problems. Finding a decent, portable cab without spending a fortune is more of a challenge. 

 

I might just have to hump the heavy cabs for a little while longer and save up for a PJB C4 compact. 

 

(I know this is the FRFR thread... but) what about one of these: https://reverb.com/item/39339547-ashdown-rm112-t

[Frank Blank]

1 minute ago, jrixn1 said:

(I know this is the FRFR thread... but) what about one of these: https://reverb.com/item/39339547-ashdown-rm112-t

 

Blasphemer 😉

Edited August 11, 2021 by Frank Blank

[EBS_freak]

Just cos the response is quoted doesn’t mean It can get that low with any sort of significant drop off. Additionally, whether the amp can sustain lows without sagging… and then there’s the ruggedness of the speaker itself.

[Newfoundfreedom]

1 hour ago, jrixn1 said:

 

(I know this is the FRFR thread... but) what about one of these: https://reverb.com/item/39339547-ashdown-rm112-t

 

Wow! Spooky!

 

I've just this minute ordered one of these from a music shop here in Bulgaria at a great price. Should solve all my problems for a lightweight small venue rig. 

 

Thanks everybody for the advice.

This was even cheaper than a budget frfr, so it looks like the FRFR thing is on hold for the foreseeable future. 

 

As you were. 😁

Edited August 11, 2021 by Newfoundfreedom

[Greg Edwards69]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

Just cos the response is quoted doesn’t mean It can get that low with any sort of significant drop off. Additionally, whether the amp can sustain lows without sagging… and then there’s the ruggedness of the speaker itself.

The quoted specs state 48 - 19,000 Hz (-3 dB).  Only -3db at 48hz. That's pretty similar, if not better than my Headrush 112 which handles bass perfectly well IMHO. Indeed, it behaves similarly to my previous Markbass 1x12 cab and 'feels' like a proper bass combo behind me.

As long as expectations are realistic, I think this Harley Benton speaker may perform perfectly well for the OPs use.

IME, an hpf is invaluable with these type of speakers.  You may find really don't need as much low end as you think you do. I often run the low cut on my helix around 60-80hz. Clean's up the low end beautifully, protects the speaker, no flab but still "bassy".

Edited August 11, 2021 by Greg Edwards69

[danweb22]

This was my rig for tonight’s gig 

 

Tuner > big muff > q strip, into 2 x QSC k12.2s

 

Amazing tone and volume 

 

 

[EBS_freak]

59 minutes ago, danweb22 said:

This was my rig for tonight’s gig 

 

Tuner > big muff > q strip, into 2 x QSC k12.2s

 

Amazing tone and volume 

 

 

And doesn't it look so much more high brow?

[Jack]

20 hours ago, danweb22 said:

This was my rig for tonight’s gig ...

Do they stack well? I've always fancied it but the shiny, slippery plastic makes me nervous and the feet/recess setup is a bit shallow.

[danweb22]

1 hour ago, Jack said:

Do they stack well? I've always fancied it but the shiny, slippery plastic makes me nervous and the feet/recess setup is a bit shallow.

 They seemed fine to me, there’s a bit of stickiness to the feet which helps them stay put 

[EBS_freak]

If in doubt, ratchet strap! Look like the real PA deal then!

[nottswarwick]

Can I be permitted to ask a question which may have been answered in the previous 60 pages which I have skimmed only?

 

Summary - I recently tried a Headrush 12" cab, and concluded that it worked well for guitar, but for bass was lacking at gig volumes.  It felt "toy-like" and I was a little "on edge" with the volume as I felt like I might damage it with full on bass - certainly not anything I ever think with my Markbass rig.  Even with guitar, it was on volume 7 of 10 for gig volume. Certainly not feeling like 2000w peak, or 1000w continuous  - I suspect this has been covered and is a load of bobbins anyway...

 

However, it sounded great to be fair, and thus I don't wish to rule out the "one rig for guitar and bass duties" concept just yet.

 

I have used "better"  far more expensive cabs for PA duty (RCF 7 series, the more expensive Yamaha cabs etc) and these all seem better made - and indeed you do get what you pay for.

 

SO the question for the assembled masses is "will spending more than the £275 cost of the Headrush yield me a single active PA speaker cab that will easily handle guitar and bass, with pre-amp pedal boards, at gig volumes without fear of breaking them, while sounding good and being reliable".  And if so, which ones? 

 

Sorry that this will mean a little repetition here, the thread is huge.

 

Thanks

 

Chris

[nottswarwick]

On 11/08/2021 at 13:12, EBS_freak said:

Just cos the response is quoted doesn’t mean It can get that low with any sort of significant drop off. Additionally, whether the amp can sustain lows without sagging… and then there’s the ruggedness of the speaker itself.

this is what I mean and it worries me

[Frank Blank]

53 minutes ago, nottswarwick said:

SO the question for the assembled masses is "will spending more than the £275 cost of the Headrush yield me a single active PA speaker cab that will easily handle guitar and bass, with pre-amp pedal boards, at gig volumes without fear of breaking them, while sounding good and being reliable".

Yes.

 

53 minutes ago, nottswarwick said:

And if so, which ones? 

RCF, Yamaha and QSC. I used a QSC K12.2 that did everything you ask.

[Downunderwonder]

Sensitivity at 48hz says nothing about power handling at 48hz.

[jrixn1]

1 hour ago, nottswarwick said:

"will spending more than the £275 cost of the Headrush yield me a single active PA speaker cab that will easily handle guitar and bass, with pre-amp pedal boards, at gig volumes without fear of breaking them, while sounding good and being reliable".  And if so, which ones? 

 

What is your current Markbass rig?  Assuming it's something like a CMD 121H (and not a pair of 8x10s etc!) - then the answer to your question is yes.

 

My RCF 732A replaced a Big Baby 2.  For QSC, look at the K12.2; for Yamaha, the DXR12 mkII.

Edited September 1, 2021 by jrixn1