Interesting FRFR story..

[EBS_freak]

15 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

I use a Fishman Platinum Pro pre at the moment but am considering a Grace Alix.

The Grace stuff is well nice... but if you are starting to get into that calibre of gear, I would urge you to look at studio channel strips. You are kinda heading in the same direction as I went - I ended up favouring channel strips over dedicated bass pres and actually ended up buying a Kemper so I could start collecting profiles of channel strips as opposed to amps. Every time I go to a top end studio, I always take my Kemper in just in case they have anything particularly tasty I like the sound of. So yeah, Kemper with SSL, Neve, Chandler, Focusrite, Tubetech... I love it.

[LukeFRC]

11 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

The Grace stuff is well nice... but if you are starting to get into that calibre of gear, I would urge you to look at studio channel strips. You are kinda heading in the same direction as I went - I ended up favouring channel strips over dedicated bass pres and actually ended up buying a Kemper so I could start collecting profiles of channel strips as opposed to amps. Every time I go to a top end studio, I always take my Kemper in just in case they have anything particularly tasty I like the sound of. So yeah, Kemper with SSL, Neve, Chandler, Focusrite, Tubetech... I love it.

off topic a bit but ever used anything with an API 312 or similar?

One of the best tones I've had was with my old Warwick Helborg preamp with the EQ turned off -  "based on an Neve" they say-  it's not at all, I've got the schematics but sounded nice. A DIY clone of a 312 would be within my DIY capabilities and on my "would like to try" list for a number of years now

[Frank Blank]

14 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

The Grace stuff is well nice... but if you are starting to get into that calibre of gear, I would urge you to look at studio channel strips. You are kinda heading in the same direction as I went - I ended up favouring channel strips over dedicated bass pres and actually ended up buying a Kemper so I could start collecting profiles of channel strips as opposed to amps. Every time I go to a top end studio, I always take my Kemper in just in case they have anything particularly tasty I like the sound of. So yeah, Kemper with SSL, Neve, Chandler, Focusrite, Tubetech... I love it.

Oh no, here we go again. I have no idea what a ‘channel strip’ or a ‘Kemper’ is. I am open to mockery.

[EBS_freak]

17 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

off topic a bit but ever used anything with an API 312 or similar?

One of the best tones I've had was with my old Warwick Helborg preamp with the EQ turned off -  "based on an Neve" they say-  it's not at all, I've got the schematics but sounded nice. A DIY clone of a 312 would be within my DIY capabilities and on my "would like to try" list for a number of years now

Not hardware based no. As an idea, but your bass into a DAW with an API plugin and have a play to see if it gives you something that you dig on before going searching for the hardware equivalent 

[EBS_freak]

16 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

Oh no, here we go again. I have no idea what a ‘channel strip’ or a ‘Kemper’ is. I am open to mockery.

Channel strip - basically a load of and maybe some dynamics processing that would typically be found on every channel of a mixing desk. I find them a lot more musical and useful than a lot of bass centric EQ solutions.

Kemper - a box of wizardry that profiles (eg copies and emulates) the end to end sound of an amp with a speaker attached to it. But you can use it without the speaker but to clone channel strips.

[Frank Blank]

6 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Channel strip - basically a load of and maybe some dynamics processing that would typically be found on every channel of a mixing desk. I find them a lot more musical and useful than a lot of bass centric EQ solutions.

Kemper - a box of wizardry that profiles (eg copies and emulates) the end to end sound of an amp with a speaker attached to it. But you can use it without the speaker but to clone channel strips.

I assumed ‘channel strips’ referred to the channel from a mixing desk, so you copy channel strips with the Kemper and then play through the Kemper?

[EBS_freak]

5 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

I assumed ‘channel strips’ referred to the channel from a mixing desk, so you copy channel strips with the Kemper and then play through the Kemper?

What happens is that the Kemper plays a load of its techy gobbledygook through the channel strip/amp/amp and can and measures what comes out the other end. It then works out what’s happened in the middle to create the profile.

When you then play through the Kemper, the Kemper recreates the bit that happens in the middle on the original setup to give you the same sound.

[HazBeen]

Helix LT into any PA sounds great, so the Stomp will also sound very good. 

[Jack]

2 hours ago, CameronJ said:

I have a Stomp but am yet to use it with my RCF as I’m on tour at the moment. I have no doubt it will sound lovely though. Previously I was using an MXR M81 which worked great.

What do you think of the 32A Cameron? Does it go 'rock drummer' loud?

[CameronJ]

20 minutes ago, Jack said:

What do you think of the 32A Cameron? Does it go 'rock drummer' loud?

I haven’t had to use it at “rock drummer” loud settings to be honest, but considering I’ve not had the master volume past about 25% (at which point things were beginning to shake in the house) I reckon it’ll do bloody well in a loud band context. I’ve certainly not got any headroom concerns!

[LukeFRC]

59 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Not hardware based no. As an idea, but your bass into a DAW with an API plugin and have a play to see if it gives you something that you dig on before going searching for the hardware equivalent 

Erm ... I’ll do that before building my channel strip type DI ... but given lack of DAW or plugins... is it something you’ve tried? 

[LukeFRC]

27 minutes ago, Jack said:

What do you think of the 32A Cameron? Does it go 'rock drummer' loud?

You are in the north east aren’t you... as is that gumtree seller

[EBS_freak]

5 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Erm ... I’ll do that before building my channel strip type DI ... but given lack of DAW or plugins... is it something you’ve tried? 

I like API but personally don’t like for bass.

[Frank Blank]

54 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

What happens is that the Kemper plays a load of its techy gobbledygook through the channel strip/amp/amp and can and measures what comes out the other end. It then works out what’s happened in the middle to create the profile.

When you then play through the Kemper, the Kemper recreates the bit that happens in the middle on the original setup to give you the same sound.

Got it, thanks for the explanation. I’m not really trying to emulate any amps and I don’t really use studios per se, at home I use logic and a Focusrite, all I’m trying to do live is get the least coloured sound possible when amplifying my bass and then to tweak that sound with some eq to suit any room/live situation. The Kemper is a significant jump in price from the Alix and I’m not sure I’d use it for a fraction (or any) of its capabilities. Do feel free to convince me otherwise.

[EBS_freak]

3 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

Got it, thanks for the explanation. I’m not really trying to emulate any amps and I don’t really use studios per se, at home I use logic and a Focusrite, all I’m trying to do live is get the least coloured sound possible when amplifying my bass and then to tweak that sound with some eq to suit any room/live situation. The Kemper is a significant jump in price from the Alix and I’m not sure I’d use it for a fraction (or any) of its capabilities. Do feel free to convince me otherwise.

Wouldn’t suggest you go Kemper as that was to do guitar duties and everything. Just saying go along and try channel strips as opposed to looking at just an eq that is marketed towards bass. Of course, the form factor may also be a factor in your decisions.

Edited January 5, 2019 by EBS_freak

[Frank Blank]

2 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Wouldn’t suggest you go Kemper as that was to do guitar duties and everything. Just saying go along and try channel strips as opposed to looking at just an eq that is marketed towards bass. Of course, the form factor may also be a factor in your decisions.

Really, do excuse my lack of tech knowledge but how does one utilise a channel strip without the Kemper in a live situation?

[CameronJ]

2 minutes ago, CameronJ said:

I haven’t had to use it at “rock drummer” loud settings to be honest, but considering I’ve not had the master volume past about 25% (at which point things were beginning to shake in the house) I reckon it’ll do bloody well in a loud band context. I’ve certainly not got any headroom concerns!

@Jack to add context to this, the 32A replaced a Tecamp Puma 900 paired with a TKS 1126 cab - regarded by many as a very capable “one cab solution”. It’s one of those cabs that will soak up as much power as you want to give it and keep on going, with its high excursion 12” driver paired with a 6” mid/high driver. It’s a monster.

Having said that, when I A/B’d the two rigs against each other the 32A felt just as deep but significantly clearer than the Tecamp/TKS rig, especially noticeable when playing back recorded music. I do vocal looping on the side and use a lot of effects on my bass so a transparent response with tons of headroom is a gift for me.

[EBS_freak]

2 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

Really, do excuse my lack of tech knowledge but how does one utilise a channel strip without the Kemper in a live situation?

A channel strip is a piece of hardware in its own right.

https://www.studiocare.com/ssl-xlogic-alpha-channel.html?___store=default&utm_source=GoogleShopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5t6k3fTW3wIVBJ7VCh2vRgnCEAQYBiABEgKpIfD_BwE

 

It’s an either or thing.

Edited January 5, 2019 by EBS_freak

[Frank Blank]

1 minute ago, EBS_freak said:

A channel strip is a piece of hardware in its own right.

https://www.studiocare.com/ssl-xlogic-alpha-channel.html?___store=default&utm_source=GoogleShopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5t6k3fTW3wIVBJ7VCh2vRgnCEAQYBiABEgKpIfD_BwE

Oh good grief *sound of scales falling from eyes (whatever sound that makes)* now I get what people are talking about generally when they say a channel strip but appear to be discussing it away from a studio desk, another piece of the jigsaw clicks into place! This also explains your form factor comment. I suppose the only difference between a high end preamp and the channel strip is the form. I am trying to minimise the gear as much as possible and the strip you kindly linked to would involve a rack although it looks as if it has a lot more eq ability than the Alix?

[lemmywinks]

I'm still using the Fishman Platinum Pro EQ which is a do everything pedal, can't fault it really. I did briefly look at the GK Plex and came close to buying it but the controls look a little convoluted for me, on the Fishman everything has its own knob and it doesn't have any extraneous features for me. I go bass - Fishman - QSC. Dead easy!

 

I think if I was to look for anything else then something like EBS suggested above which can model different studio preamps would be the way to go. Does the Helix have these profiles available or is it just mainly guitar/bass amp modelling?

[Bridgehouse]

Just now, lemmywinks said:

I'm still using the Fishman Platinum Pro EQ which is a do everything pedal, can't fault it really. I did briefly look at the GK Plex and came close to buying it but the controls look a little convoluted for me, on the Fishman everything has its own knob and it doesn't have any extraneous features for me. I go bass - Fishman - QSC. Dead easy!

 

I think if I was to look for anything else then something like EBS suggested above which can model different studio preamps would be the way to go. Does the Helix have these profiles available or is it just mainly guitar/bass amp modelling?

The Helix has a very good global EQ - and a number of other very good EQ “blocks” - it has a Mic in and I’ve recorded vocals through it very successfully - it’s certainly not limited to guitar and bass

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, Frank Blank said:

Oh good grief *sound of scales falling from eyes (whatever sound that makes)* now I get what people are talking about generally when they say a channel strip but appear to be discussing it away from a studio desk, another piece of the jigsaw clicks into place! This also explains your form factor comment. I suppose the only difference between a high end preamp and the channel strip is the form. I am trying to minimise the gear as much as possible and the strip you kindly linked to would involve a rack although it looks as if it has a lot more eq ability than the Alix?

It all depends, some channel strips have very few things to tweak on them and have an inherent sound baked in. The reason that a lot of high end desks are so in demand is because of this. “Transparent” pres is actually a bit of weird thing to say when selling a pre - because it’s usually the colouration that is the appealing thing about a pre. On desks, it’s usually the saturation, either derived from FET or valves that gives the sound and perceived “warmth” and “fatness”.

Anyway, if you want to have some options without spending on channel pres and things like Kempers, the cut down baby Helix is where I would be probably looking as a starting point. It will give you flexibility if you want to play with different tones and timbres.

[lemmywinks]

Does it have profiles modelling specific high end studio preamps though? Because the profiling ability of the Kemper sounds great (basically nicking the capability of expensive hardware and keeping it on flash storage!) but that's not very practical for me. The new Helix Stomp is a much more affordable and practical option but the attraction for me is the capability to try a ton of high end preamps. 

 

EDIT- That was replying to Bridgehouse about the Helix btw.

Edited January 5, 2019 by lemmywinks

[EBS_freak]

No - the Kemper is unique in that respect. It’s the only thing I know of that has mastered the DIY “profiling” element of modelling.

If you know what flavour of preamp you are into, then that may steer you towards certain channel strips or remakes of (eg Tech 21 and JHS are just two folks that have put “famous” channel strips in a pedal type enclosure).

Before you get too overboard about it though, the audience won’t be able to tell/care the difference between the two.

Half the fun is seeing the subtle nuances between pres but on the gig, well it can get a little lost. If you are an IEM user however, that’s where you can really begin to appreciate the subtlety.

Edited January 5, 2019 by EBS_freak

[lemmywinks]

Thanks, the main interest for me is being able to try different preamps which would be an improvement on what I have now without the associated astronomical costs, hopefully in a package that is convenient to gig with - ie a smallish floor unit. For years now I've basically left the amp controls alone and used instrument specific preamps as my favourite sounds have always been bass straight to the desk and I wanted to recreate that. Just a little bit of eq and compression is all I use.

 

I've never used any modelling units before (aside from early Line 6 guitar stuff which I didn't like) so I have no idea how they actually work. I assumed you'd be able to download/share profiles or is it a bit more regulated than that? Obviously I'm not expecting a Helix to be able to model them directly itself, I just thought there would be a plethora of preamp and compressor profiles to go through and pick what I liked.