I don't get compressors

[elephantgrey]

I think that every compressor worth its salt would have: input volume, threshold, ratio (atleast a switch, but preferably a pot), attack, makeup gain (output volume), and metering (either a row of LEDs or one that changes brightness). I don't know how you could set up a compressor to do what you wanted without any of those.

I use my compressor at the start of my chain, so that I have to dig in a bit more before my other pedals start to breakup. Just feels like to can be more precise with my volume.

[Osiris]

[quote name='elephantgrey' timestamp='1510303966' post='3405388']
I think that every compressor worth its salt would have: input volume, threshold, ratio (atleast a switch, but preferably a pot), attack, makeup gain (output volume), and metering (either a row of LEDs or one that changes brightness). I don't know how you could set up a compressor to do what you wanted without any of those.
[/quote]

I've used a number of compressors with metering over the years but I much prefer to use my ears to find the sound I'm looking for.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1510234638' post='3404866']
I'll set my pedal up with the same setting on two patches but one with a compressor for this weekends gig and see if can tell the difference in a band situation, but I do use a touch of overdrive which sort of compressors the signal anyway.
[/quote]

How much overdrive are you using? If it's more than just a subtle bit of dirt it will be doing the same as most simple compressors anyway.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1510308674' post='3405435']
How much overdrive are you using? If it's more than just a subtle bit of dirt it will be doing the same as most simple compressors anyway.
[/quote]I think you're probably right, I use the the sim of the Sansamp bass driver on a zoom B1on set just below where it gets 'spikey'
I have tried the compressors with out any overdrive and tbh the difference was minimal, to my ears anyway, which is what promoted the original question, the compressor on my Trace Elliot SMX head doesn't seem to do anything at all, could be broken though.
I have seen some BCer's saying they use a compressor to shape there sound, most recently the Greek when reviewing the TE elf, saying "it made the world of difference", just don't see it, and wondered whether I was missing something.

[paulo m]

For myself compression is most definately at the begining of my effects chain...& used Sparingly' ( just to grab it..Not squash it) this is achieved by low release & attack thresholds...but it does fatten up bass tone & adds slightly more sustain...Also your feeding the rest of the board a uniform signal So' lets say your running that into an Octave' this kind of signal should in theory? Help with the tracking of the octave..etc'etc' But some folk place it elsewhere in the chain... its a subjective topic that will run & run...

[project_c]

If you can't hear the difference you probably just don't need one, save your money. Drive pedals compress signals anyway, and if you play with a pick and have good technique you may not have peaks and dips in volume, or attack / sustain issues to worry about.

Compressors are not a necessity at all, and they tend to be more important in a studio than in a live situation.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='project_c' timestamp='1510324820' post='3405626']
If you can't hear the difference you probably just don't need one, save your money. Drive pedals compress signals anyway, and if you play with a pick and have good technique you may not have peaks and dips in volume, or attack / sustain issues to worry about.

Compressors are not a necessity at all, and they tend to be more important in a studio than in a live situation.
[/quote]

After last nights rehearsal with my Spectra, both on and off, im going to agree and say i just dont need it. My BDDI has a bit of compression anyway. Im not sure if its worth keeping, as i have a Zoom B3n, but for now ill just put it ot one side. Im sure ill find a use for it.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Al Krow]

If you can't hear the difference you probably just don't need one, save your money. Drive pedals compress signals anyway, and if you play with a pick and have good technique you may not have peaks and dips in volume, or attack / sustain issues to worry about. Compressors are not a necessity at all, and they tend to be more important in a studio than in a live situation.

I think that's very fair.

My take, for what its worth, is as follows:

(1) Compression + sustain
Already dealt with by drive pedals, if you're using drive;
Clean sustain is much less used in most bass playing (as compared to lead guitar);
Playing a more staccato style (eg for 50s and 60s bass) you don't need sustain anyway;
- Likely have the compressor at the start of the signal chain for this?

(2) Getting a more centred sound
A compressor could be useful to even out things bringing up lows and reducing peaks - or you could just deal with it by playing more evenly!

(3) Protecting your cabs
Protecting the speakers from volume spikes / speaker pop when using funk pedal filters and also if you're using slap - well maybe a limiter is an alternative to a compressor for this and solid state amps already limit (clip); but a compressor will do more than a limiter by keeping things in more balance than simply eliminating the spikes which is what the limiter is doing;
- Likely to have the compressor at the end of the signal chain for this?

YMMV, IMHO etc. Edited March 2, 2018 by Al Krow

[BigRedX]

I think that the use of the compressor also depends on what you are playing. With the Terrortones where I was doing lots of interesting rhythms, having a touch of compression certainly helped. However, on the songs where I was just pumping out 8th notes turning the compressor off was (for me) much better.

[Osiris]

[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1510327779' post='3405657']
That is how they are most used!

They can be used to noticeably alter the envelope of the sound, but most of the time a comp is used to make the bass more consistent in the mix, without a perceptible change in the 'sound' of the instrument. The majority of compression is [i]very, very[/i] subtle indeed. A good way to get a feel for the difference is to play half a set with one on, then turn it off half way through. You may not notice much when you turn it on, but you may realise what you lose when it's gone.

Nothing wrong with not feeling the need though, if you don't experience any benefit, just ignore them!

[/quote]

This sums up compression (at least the way I use it) perfectly

Al Krow, in response to your post #34;

(1) I've never been entirely convinced by this point of view. Yes drive pedals compress your signal but I'm not convinced that they do it in the same way that a dedicated compressor does. Or at least not as efficiently. No doubt someone with far more knowledge on the subject can explain the differences, if indeed there are any A dedicated compressor will give you much more control and will allow you to get clean compression without any colour from the drive circuit.

(2) I agree with the first half of your sentence but not the second half. An even touch is all well and good but I'm yet to be convinced that a good technique is as efficient as a good compressor for keeping things even. But I'm happy to be proved wrong on this.

(3) You're in the right ball park with this one . A limiter is a compressor with the ratio set to infinity i.e. the ratio acts like a brick wall that no signal spike can smash through. So yes a limiter is perfectly suited to slapping.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='elephantgrey' timestamp='1510303966' post='3405388']
I think that every compressor worth its salt would have: input volume, threshold, ratio (atleast a switch, but preferably a pot), attack, makeup gain (output volume), and metering (either a row of LEDs or one that changes brightness). I don't know how you could set up a compressor to do what you wanted without any of those.

I use my compressor at the start of my chain, so that I have to dig in a bit more before my other pedals start to breakup. Just feels like to can be more precise with my volume.
[/quote]


Think everyone has there own views on pedals and what they want from them and how much they personally can influence the output from a pedal.

For a lot of people myself included they dont want a lot of variables on a compressor. Yes its nice to be able to experiment with different parameters but if all you want is a simple compressor that controls the peaks and troughs with preset variables or characteristics then job done for me.

All i wanted was a simple plug and play compressor where i didn't need to think too hard on how it works. The Aphex does that for me altho recently i've opted to play without a compressor at all. It depends on style of music i'm playing whether i need it or not.

Dave

[DiMarco]

I use compression only subtle. When I play by myself you don't reallly notice it is there. Within the total band mix though it is a completely different story. The whole band sounds more tight and compact because of me using a compressor. I love it! Snaredrum pops out more, guitarists accents in his playing are more evident.

After trying a number of higher end comps I settled for a Cali76 cb because of its highpass filter making it behave less squashy then others on my five stringers.

I never play without a compressor anymore.

 

[ratman]

This explains and demonstrates compression very well. 

 

 

[ratman]

And this....

 

[TrevorR]

IMO this is the best ever explanation of how effects work...  http://www.monkeyfx.co.uk/guides.html  All through the medium of teeny tiny monkeys! Here's an extract...

For context...

Quote

Guides

The MonkeyFX guides were created by Andi Allan as a response to a request for a simple explanation for how an envelope filter works, posted on the Harmony Central forums (acapella.harmony-central.com). Due to enthusiastic response, they grew quickly to the format you see now, i.e. very scruffy indeed.

---

Envelope Filter

Envelope filter is a bit like an automatic wah (not to be confused with auto-wah). Imagine that you have a wah pedal and a well-trained monkey.

When you hit the strings hard, the monkey pushes the rocker pedal forwards. As the volume decreases the monkey pulls the rocker pedal back. So the volume envelope of the guitar signal determines the position of the pedal, via the monkey. Now imagine that the monkey is a tiny monkey hidden in a pedal, and that the rocker pedal is a rocker pedal hidden inside your stomp box. Then it's a simple step to imagine that there's actually no monkey or rocker pedal, and that it's all done in electronics.

So basically, if you hit the strings hard you get a treble boost, and as the signal from the strings dies away the boost fades. If you regulate how hard you play, you can get a similar sound to how many people use wah, emphasising the upper frequencies as you hit the strings...

Down to business...

Quote

Compression

Picture the scene. Sicily, 1947. A monkey. With a volume pedal. He has tinnitus, so he doesn't like loud noises, but needs things to be a certain volume level in order to hear them, poor little mite. He is wearing headphones. When you play, if it's too loud, he turns the volume down a little. If it's too quiet, he turns it up. He can do this quite quickly if he wants, but there's a big dial in front of him, telling him how fast he's allowed to turn the volume control. There's another control that determines how loud his headphones are compared to your guitar.

Pop the little chap in a box and paint it (traditionally) blue and off you go. Oh, it might be a good idea to replace him with some sort of electronics gubbins, to save his poor hearing.

Some compressors allow you to have a little effect loop in between your guitar and his headphones, so that you could (for instance) have him only listen to the bass part of your guitar sound, but work the volume control according to that...

 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by TrevorR

[TrevorG]

I totally sympathise with you. I only got mine because I was nervous about gigging with with a 1000 watt combo (MB k1) having blown my last amp up with a fodera pre amp. Ended up getting the ebs multi comp to keep everything under control. Leave it on all the time now. Slap, fast playing, tapping - all so much clearer. Of course the big selling¶ point with pricey comps is transparency. The better it is the less clue you have that it's there.

[tandark]

Was initially unsure about compressors. Educated myself, realised it would solve issues I had with my P-bass (even signal and more sustain wanted). Bought a Walrus Deep Six (blend control and internal voltage boost to 18v deciding factors).

Plugged for 5 mins to test - issues immediately solved, but dynamics I need still present. More tweaking required, but instant pay-off.

[dave_bass5]

I was raving about my Cali 76 CB a month ago, so much better than my Spectracomp (for me). Well, ive now done two rehearsals without turning it on, and i dont miss it at all. I think, as always, i was looking for a solution to a problem that didnt exist, and more so willing to throw money at it. In hindsight the Spectracomp was doing just as good a job, although that was used as set and forget. With the Cali im forever looking for that sweet spot. Less choice means less mucking about IMO.

 Ill stick my Spectracomp back on the board and use that if i need compression. Glad i didn't sell it now. Id rather have that sitting not begin used than the Cali.

[Ghost_Bass]

IMO, when you hear the compressor working you're using it wrong!

Compression can be used in two ways:

1 - When you want your sound to be constant, allways at the same volume with the same punch you can use high compression setting to disguise your poor right hand technique. This will make every note sound at he same level raising the volume when you hit soft and lowering it when you dig hard. It's great for those players that use the same sound for everything and don't use dynamics in their playing;

2 - When you want to use lots of dynamic range on your playing, normally people set the gain high to have more dynamic headroom but that comes at the cost of getting loud and harsh sounds if you slap a high string. A touch of compression here, preferably dual band so it can focus on the highs, can help tame those peaks whilst allowing to to retain all the dynamic range in your playing.

I'm in the nr. 2 cathegory and i use the EBS Multicomp as i find it to be the best compressor (IMO) to obtain that desired result. Only times i can tell it's working is if i'm slapping a bit (normally on soundcheck) and bypass the pedal to hear the diference. In every pedal i have on the pedalbord all volumes are matched to the bypass volume because if that particular pedal packs up during the gig i can bypass it and keep on playing the song at the same volume.

[TrevorG]

The last two posts were heavy on the wisdom! I was so glad you read Dave_bass5' s thoughts on the Cali-76. It is a brilliant pedal but I knew I would have played with it more than my bass(if only to justify the price). Instead I got the multi comp and completely agree with Ghost_Bass. I get the sound I want very quickly and don't spend the whole gig looking at my feet.

Edited March 1, 2018 by TrevorG

[Al Krow]

On 28/02/2018 at 12:45, dave_bass5 said:

 Ill stick my Spectracomp back on the board and use that if i need compression. 

Dave - when do you think you would need compression?

Be interesting if you did the same thing with your Spectracomp as you did with your Cali i.e. use it for a couple of rehearsals and then don't bother and see if anyone notices a difference. I'd be really interested in what you've got to say on the subject as you seem to be approaching this in a really 'objective' way and with an open mind, which I, for one, really appreciate!

[dave_bass5]

10 hours ago, TrevorG said:

The last two posts were heavy on the wisdom! I was so glad you read Dave_bass5' s thoughts on the Cali-76. It is a brilliant pedal but I knew I would have played with it more than my bass(if only to justify the price). Instead I got the multi comp and completely agree with Ghost_Bass. I get the sound I want very quickly and don't spend the whole gig looking at my feet.

Exactly. It should be set and forget, and with my other pedals I tend to leave them as they are. With the Cali, it’s like I don’t really need it but I’ve spent all that money on it and I need to get it to do something wonderful. Dont get me wrong, it does make a difference, and does what it’s supposed to, but it also distracting (especially the light). 

10 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Dave - when do you think you would need compression?

Be interesting if you did the same thing with your Spectracomp as you did with your Cali i.e. use it for a couple of rehearsals and then don't bother and see if anyone notices a difference. I'd be really interested in what you've got to say on the subject as you seem to be approaching this in a really 'objective' way and with an open mind, which I, for one, really appreciate!

I got the Spectracomp when I started using my Jazz bass again. I wanted to beef up the notes on the D and G strings, so thought a comp would help with that. Either even the output from all the strings, or at least tame the lower notes. It did work to an extent, and the Spectracomp was just left on all the time. When I read about the Cali’s side chain and HFP this seemed to do exactly what I was looking for, with dedicated knobs. 

Having just the one knob means I can tweak it slightly, but I tend to just leave it alone, as without the Tone Print software I can’t adjust much. This is actually a good thing, and why I’m going to go back to it. I thought having the Cali I could at least fine tune things on the fly, but I’ve found having just one knob that changes a few things at once is easer than having 6 knobs. 

I had a rehearsal last night, and didn’t take any comp. I was going through the studio rig and did feel I should have taken a comp. No one else noticed but I felt the upper notes were a bit too loud, louder than normal (with my P bass). This showed I can make use of a compressor, and I can see what its been doing, so I will keep using compression,  just not an expensive one. 

[GisserD]

I think its important to remember that Compression can be used as both an Effect.... and a tool. I feel most people are either wanting one or the other, but not usually both at the same time. I feel some are trying to use it as a tool, but are expecting to hear results as if using effects. IMHO Compression should not be heard in a mix. If it is then its being used as an "effect". 

I have some experience with studio production and know how ESSENTIAL it is to compress a bass track. Its for the same reasons that i use a compressor on my board. To even out the dynamics, and bring out the subtleties in the playing. Anyway...Ive been reliably informed that every pop/rock recording from the last 40 years has compression applied to the bass track (by professionals), and who am i to argue

[BigRedX]

34 minutes ago, GisserD said:

I have some experience with studio production and know how ESSENTIAL it is to compress a bass track. Its for the same reasons that i use a compressor on my board. To even out the dynamics, and bring out the subtleties in the playing. Anyway...Ive been reliably informed that every pop/rock recording from the last 40 years has compression applied to the bass track (by professionals), and who am i to argue

It would probably be fair to say that just about every instrument on a pop/rock recording (and the vocals) has had compression applied to it, whether it be an actual compressor, something in the signal path with valves in it being driven hard, or tape saturation; or a combination of all three.