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A Little History Lesson


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[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1509882328' post='3402253']

the Beatles were never, [i]ever[/i], "just another band".
[/quote]

I don't disagree with that but none of the people here that feel the need to go on about them were in the band, just being alive in the 60's doesn't gain you any extra kudos no matter how many threads you start :)

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[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1509871772' post='3402150']
This is my problem with the Beatles, or at least with those who say this sort of thing...
It's never "among the most influential", or "they were very influential", it's always "they were the most influential musicians ever". And there's no argument allowed.
The answer to any dissent from that position is "you don't appreciate history", or "you weren't there, how could you understand?"
I personally feel that having such an intractable position is an insult to all the other great innovators in music, some of whom made very little money and got none of the adulation and worship (and huge piles of cash) that the Beatles got.
[/quote]

But I didnt say they were the ONLY influential act, because they were not, I said most influential. I am also only talking about the short time they were recording material. I also did not say ever, I am talking Pop/Rock as a genre. I could argue that people who deny there massive influence on music and popular culture are simply trying to be different because they don't like there music. I am not a fan of Elvis, but I would never deny his influence on what has followed.

I have followed and been involved in music for 55 years and I cant think of an act that has influenced as many musicians before or since the Beatles. Elvis was a catalyst but his musical scope and breadth of influence was not as wide ranging, or Michael Jackson. I dont think its such a big claim to think the Beatles are the most influential pop act, so far. You can correct me and I will have no problem accepting if it is patently not so. I have no axe to grind by the way, I dont have shares in them or anything, its not that important to me I was merely answering the OP. :)

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It wasn't just the music they influenced. Fashion tended to follow them too. Hairstyles also follwoed the Beatles images.
Not sure if those things were around at the time but like anything a famous musician or band does at their peak will influence fans to follow suit.

I'm also not a Beatles fan or an Elvis fan for that matter apart from recognising what they contributed to music in their day.
I think they influenced the direction of music in 60's and as they changed styles you would see other bands follow a similar pattern.

Dave

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[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1509867767' post='3402120']


It's okay Blue. The silent majority just [i]knows[/i] what a big deal it was. Many world changing things happened as a result of the sixties though. Lots more things were happening in the world that drove the youth towards self-empowerment after years of post-war austerity.[/quote]

Agreed and great commentary SpondonBassed.

The world was waiting for something positive to happen, something fun to take us away from the austerity.

Enter, The Beatles.

Blue

Edited by blue
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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1509884413' post='3402273']


just being alive in the 60's doesn't gain you any extra kudos.[/quote]

I say it does (alive of age and socially aware and concious) and not only kudos it gives us a high level of credibility.

We saw it, heard it,felt it and some of us became emerced in it

Understand I'm a star member of the *You Had To Be There Club" 😂

Blue

Edited by blue
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[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1509886870' post='3402305']
But I didnt say they were the ONLY influential act, because they were not, I said most influential. [/quote]

Great debate position and historically correct.

Agreed

Blue

Edited by blue
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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1509879898' post='3402227']

I always get is that somehow the uber fans want recognition purely for being born at the right time. [/quote]

Probably because it's the only thing in life I mananged to get right. Being born at the right time.😂

Blue

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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1509879898' post='3402227']
I don't know why we need all these Beatles threads, in fairness we were due one as it's been a while since the last batch
[/quote]

StingRay Pete it's always a fun debate topic.

What's interesting is, this started out as a "no response/no interest thread.

Blue

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[quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1509876298' post='3402199']



This kind of shows the futility of this sort of discussion :lol:


On a side note regard influence , Mr Sheeran headlined Glastonbury , on his own , to 80,000 peeps on site and countless millions worldwide (live) , he writes all ( or most) of his own songs , and he's a ginga ;) , now , if that doesn't turn out to be a massive influence on countless numbers of people for their future musical ambition and inspiration I would be astonished.[/quote]

I guess you had to be there.😂

Blue

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[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1509829769' post='3402014']
There's been some pivotal moments in the history of popular music over the years i've been listening to music.
These are probably the highlights in my own humble opinion but i'm pretty sure others will have their own idea of what was a major turning point for popular music
Elvis
Beatles
Psychedelic
Glam Rock
Punk
Heavy Metal

I've deliberately missed out the music i was more into like Heavy Rock and Prog as i think they were follow ons from Beatles and Psych kind of thing in my mind.

Dave
[/quote]

Another astute point and observation.

"Let's see, if I take a little from these country guitar riffs and a little bit of Chuck's riffs it might help these songs out"

That might have been what the 17 year old George Harrison was thinking in 1963. Very prog for the time.

George didn't have decades of previous guitar work to draw from. Prior to Chuck and The Beatles most lead and solo work was primarily the duty of the saxophone.

Blue

Edited by blue
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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1509896289' post='3402386']


You can't give yourself kudos or credibility that has to come from other people.

You wern't even a teenager during their popularity![/quote]

I give myself kudos and credibility for all sorts of stuff all the time.😂

I think I was 9 or 10 years old. I had their records and knew I wanted in on all if it. the beat, girls, the fashion, the attention, I wanted to be cool. They opened the door to all that for me. And if history serves right I wasn't alone.

Blue

Edited by blue
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[quote name='blue' timestamp='1509897157' post='3402397']


I give myself kudos and credibility for all sorts of stuff all the time.😂

I think I was 9 or 10 years old. I had their records and knew I wanted in on all if it. the beat, girls, the cloths, the attention, I wanted to be cool. They opened the door to all that for me. And if history serves right I wasn't alone.

Blue
[/quote]

Yeah I give 'them' kudos for that :)

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Think when you look at their early music it was aimed at the popular market but as they moved into Sgt Peppers the music style had changed to a little more psych and then later again they moved onto Magical Mystery Tour attempting to create an image to match their album maybe a little more towards early prog scene and then Let It Be was again a change towards more hippy style music.

That's just my personal opinion of course but you then have to look at the timescales of those albums and what happened from that point.
Did they start the psych scene or just make it more popular.
Did they make the 1970 hippy scene more popular with the Let It Be album ?

Dave

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[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1509897356' post='3402402']
Think when you look at their early music it was aimed at the popular market but as they moved into Sgt Peppers the music style had changed to a little more psych and then later again they moved onto Magical Mystery Tour attempting to create an image to match their album maybe a little more towards early prog scene and then Let It Be was again a change towards more hippy style music.

That's just my personal opinion of course but you then have to look at the timescales of those albums and what happened from that point.
Did they start the psych scene or just make it more popular.
Did they make the 1970 hippy scene more popular with the Let It Be album ?

Dave
[/quote]

Those are tough questions Dave.

I claim historian credibility, but you got me here. I really don't know, I'm stumped.

Blue

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[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1509886870' post='3402305']
But I didnt say they were the ONLY influential act, because they were not, I said most influential. I am also only talking about the short time they were recording material. I also did not say ever, I am talking Pop/Rock as a genre. I could argue that people who deny there massive influence on music and popular culture are simply trying to be different because they don't like there music. I am not a fan of Elvis, but I would never deny his influence on what has followed.

I have followed and been involved in music for 55 years and I cant think of an act that has influenced as many musicians before or since the Beatles. Elvis was a catalyst but his musical scope and breadth of influence was not as wide ranging, or Michael Jackson. I dont think its such a big claim to think the Beatles are the most influential pop act, so far. You can correct me and I will have no problem accepting if it is patently not so. I have no axe to grind by the way, I dont have shares in them or anything, its not that important to me I was merely answering the OP. :)
[/quote]

It's the use of MOST influential that I object to.
They were influenced by Dylan to write more interesting lyrics; Dylan was influenced by them (and many others!) to go electric.
They would have been influenced by the psychedelia of the likes of the Electric Prunes to produce their later stuff (see the Nuggets and Pebbles albums series for examples). It's not like they invented rock'n'roll!
Meanwhile you've got the whole of black music to ignore as the MOST influential on rock and pop; I spose Chuck Berry, Little Richard et al had no influence on anybody.
Or for that matter, Sister Rosetta Tharpe, or Robert Johnson or a host of other blues men did nowt to change music.
Or James Brown, Motown, Hendrix, George Clinton/Bootsy, Sly and the Family Stone, Africa Bambaata etc.
It's ridiculous to say someone is the MOST influential; it's like saying Dali is the most influential artist, or Charles Dickens the most influential author;
Everybody is influenced by all sorts of stuff, including the Beatles; nobody lives in a bubble, and most importantly, it's not a bleedin' competition!

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Its a long road from turn of the century country blues and traditional irish folk music to RAWK and FONK and all the currently popular niches.

I was playing to audience in the mid fifties in the UK and even then the lines were incredibly blurred. Remember this was around the time the first stirrings of rock and roll were heard.

The only thing that I find a little sad is the way people who weren't even alive when a particular style of music was really popular lay claim to knowing who influenced whom and what were the most influential STYLES (let alone acts) with regard to the development of modern music.

The whole thing is so broad and stretches over so many years and so many countries and so many ethnic groups, who the hell knows?

Edited by ivansc
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[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1509904387' post='3402504']


It's the use of MOST influential that I object to.
They were influenced by Dylan to write more interesting lyrics; Dylan was influenced by them (and many others!) to go electric.
They would have been influenced by the psychedelia of the likes of the Electric Prunes to produce their later stuff (see the Nuggets and Pebbles albums series for examples). It's not like they invented rock'n'roll!
Meanwhile you've got the whole of black music to ignore as the MOST influential on rock and pop; I spose Chuck Berry, Little Richard et al had no influence on anybody.
Or for that matter, Sister Rosetta Tharpe, or Robert Johnson or a host of other blues men did nowt to change music.
Or James Brown, Motown, Hendrix, George Clinton/Bootsy, Sly and the Family Stone, Africa Bambaata etc.
It's ridiculous to say someone is the MOST influential; it's like saying Dali is the most influential artist, or Charles Dickens the most influential author;
Everybody is influenced by all sorts of stuff, including the Beatles; nobody lives in a bubble, and most importantly, it's not a bleedin' competition!
[/quote]

You certainly make a good point. The Beatles certainly were influenced by many.

However, you can name all the artists in the world.I still opinion they were the most influential for their time period.

Blue

Edited by blue
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I don't think it is realistic to deny the influence of the Beatles, even to the extent of acknowledging that they were certainly the most influential pop group of our times, but I didn't care for their music in the 60s and I still don't.

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[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1509910484' post='3402554']

The only thing that I find a little sad is the way people who weren't even alive when a particular style of music was really popular lay claim to knowing who influenced whom and what were the most influential STYLES (let alone acts) with regard to the development of modern music.
[/quote]

Me too.

By the way, awesome commentary.

Blue

Edited by blue
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[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1509911057' post='3402563']
I don't think it is realistic to deny the influence of the Beatles, even to the extent of acknowledging that they were certainly the most influential pop group of our times, but I didn't care for their music in the 60s and I still don't.
[/quote]

I would have to say I am more a huge fan of The Beatles but not necessarily their music.

I can't think of four names that naturally roll off the tongue more than;

John, Paul, George & Ringo.

Blue

Edited by blue
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