bassjim Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) So starting today we are going out with a small army of very good and competent dep drummers, who will share the current gigs in the diary till we find our next permanent skin basher. ( not all at once. just one per gig!). We may have even shot ourselves in the foot as we have no guarantee for future bookings any one of the right calibre will be available. But we had to do it or stay putting up with it. We had to let him go as a new family plus work ect meant he has been unable to practice between gigs and rehearsals. Timing and confidence were becoming more of an issue as of late so I could see resentment building up. Its been the elephant in the room for about a year now. We got stuck in a loop . It became 2 steps forward and three steps back as a result. It was hard, I feel bad about it, as hes a great guy but it is what it is. The show must go on. He's been with us since day one and has been part of the journey from nothing as a another new start up band 4 years ago to the dizzy heights of pubs, working mens clubs, functions and all the other joys of the weekend warrior. We did the right thing by arranging a meeting in his neck of the woods and informing him the last weekends gigs were his last and how we felt and what we have decided to do. We came clean and told him in the last week we had arranged cover for all diary gigs and effectively stabbed him in the back during that week. He was cool about it all though and said he understood, and agreed on every point we made. He even said he couldn't believe he'd got away with it thus far. This time around advertising for a drummer we have gigs, set lists, were established so I'm hoping we get it right with the next guy/gal. Getting good deps has been surprisingly easy but considering its all focused stuff and paid work.... Anyway, asking him to leave, well actually , sacking him, its been one of the hardest things I've had to do . You are sitting there and no matter what the reasons, you can visibly see its hurting the guy. Out of interest if you, were in ( or have been) in the same boat, and you as a band really liked the person causing the grief, how long would you put up with it before you asked someone to leave? Edited October 13, 2017 by bassjim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 We put up with it for years and learned to play with a slack drummer, simply because he was also a mate. Think The Who did the same according to an interview I read with Entwhistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 The answer is, about as long as you did. You did nothing wrong. You're right, doing it stinks and you feel low enough to crawl out under the door. But it's got to be done unless you want the band to start sucking. Sticking with it just breeds resentment and the mate in question stops being a mate. The fact that he's taken it so well is a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 If the whole thing has been managed without actually falling out, then the door isn't closed to 1)still being mates, and 2)possibly playing together some time in the future if the moment is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Valdemar Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 [quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1507893038' post='3388593'] We put up with it for years and learned to play with a slack drummer, simply because he was also a mate. Think The Who did the same according to an interview I read with Entwhistle [/quote] No, I won't have that! The Who all hated each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 [quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1507893038' post='3388593'] Think The Who did the same according to an interview I read with Entwhistle [/quote] This may be true, but their fans largely disagreed with them and thought the drummer was great. As well as being an entertaining character when not playing the drums, of course. Not often the case when putting up with a crappy drummer down at the Dog and Duck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Sounds like you did the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) I had to sack the same drummer twice. He is a friend and to make it even more uncomfortable, he was my landlord at the time.. He started gigging with other bands and not being available for gigs. We got a dep in and the dep was better than he was and was happy to play every gig. After a couple of months, we had to break the news to him that he was redundant. Then 10 years later, in a band he'd asked me to join, I had to do it again - for the same reason. I'm such a cold blooded swine ! Edited October 13, 2017 by gjones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) Don't all Drummers have Perms or is that Guitarists? Edited October 13, 2017 by yorks5stringer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplumber Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 In my last band both the drummer and guitarist had deps who were sh*t hot. The original guys were good enough players,but both lost focus due to the usual work,family,issues. Their playing started to suffer and the new songs got less and less. As for myself,boredom set in. I believe the singer felt the same. But as we had all become pretty good mates,I decided to leave,as did the singer.The band was finished. Happy to say we are still friends. In our case it just would not have worked trying to replace the guys,we never even thought about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tut Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I think you did totally the right thing. If the drummer knew he was 'getting away with it he should've left of his own accord then the rest of the band wouldn't have been put in the awkward position that you were by having to sack him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzbass Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 my first drummer was hopeless. tried to drum like Moon but couldn't keep time. Put up with him for 8 years because he had a rehearsal room with a pool next to it. yep,we were lazy, left our gear there and all. Then we jammed with a different drummer and I realised I'd been keeping time for him for 8 years to the detriment of my development. fast forward 30 years and the same guitarist from that band and I are looking for a drummer for our new band. Couldn't find anyone so guitarist gets old drummer in. First thing he says is "I was crap before,trying to sound like Keith and not keeping time. But he was still the same lol. Guitarist was too polite to tell him so I had to be the bad guy "look mate, a drummer who can't keep time is useless to me, more than useless as it makes my job harder. " he thinks it was just me but the whole band agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Did you give him an opportunity to resolve his issues or go straight to the sacking without him knowing. ? If he was a good drummer and an original member i would have said to him that his timing is starting to fail and he either needs to get it together or we would need to look at another drumer that can commit to the band. Think it very unfair to sack someone without offering them a chance to sort it. I would say that if you haven't given him a chance and just gone behind his back then that is sneaky and not acceptable in my opinion. The one thing you can't do is just put up with it and then sack him. Communication is vital in a band. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naxos10 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 I must admit I agree with Dave give the chance for the guy to resolve his issues. The band I am in put up with me having to go to hospital (normally A & E) if there are issues with my parents health. It's nice to know that they say they miss me when I am not there and I am certainly not the best player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Bands can't carry a drummer. It's the only member that absolutely has to be on the ball. If he wasn't up to scratch then he had to go. Sounds like you did the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Competency issues (bad timing, tuning or ability) should be sorted out one way or another after the first number where they become apparent. Personality issues can take longer to resolve, especially if the guy is a good player, writes the songs, owns the van or gets the gigs. I've known guys be fired for no reason to big reasons. Usually great players stay no matter what they do. Make sure you're worth it to the band to keep on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyce49 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 we are just about to change drummers. guy we have is awesome...should maybe be semi pro or pro. but...... has pulled a gig because it wasnt enough money...when we did a gig he organised and it was a fiver more each!!! also...he wont practise we have a setlist of 60 songs....we only get to play maybe 40/45 of those and learning any new ones is out of the question. shame it couldnt work out, but its caused big issues we had practise sessions cancelled maybe an hour before .... on the other hand.. our very first singer was sacked after half dozen practise sessions..he was that bad myself and one other turned up early at the practise... he looks up and goes.."you're early guys...you've not come with bad news...like im getting fired are you?" guy was almost in tears when we told him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thodrik Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 I would sack any band member with a perm. Unless it was a 1970s/1980s band, in which case I would sack myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12stringbassist Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) I once sacked a drummer on the spot because he absolutely refused to use practice pads when we rehearsed in my top floor studio room at home and so he could be heard all over the house (which was causing issues for my wife) and my street and people were coming banging on my front door complaining about the noise. He stuck his bottom lip out like a small child and to my mind, he just asked for it. This followed on from him getting us banned from a recording studio, because he got paralytically pissed at a recording session and collapsed and threw up in the pond next door to the studio. There were a huge number of last straws. I gave him lots of warnings and last chances in that first spell and the best thing I did for him was to finally tell him exactly what time it was and sack him, as it made him look at himself properly. He had lots of chances to put things right. People need to see there are consequences from their actions. He landed up playing in a later band of mine, when I used him again as a dep, about 10 years later on, when my band's regular drummer was very ill for a while and he seemed to have grown up quite a bit. He recently decided that he would like all mention of his name taking off any web presence and YouTube, etc, as he doesn't want to be associated with his pub band past - not sure if that's further growing up, or not. His website looks pretty bare of having ever done anything as a result. Long lists of bands on CV's can show that you are either unlucky, not that great a player, dep a lot, or that your bands tend to fail. Drummers can be odd. They are usually the band members I have found most difficult. Edited October 17, 2017 by 12stringbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saint Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) I had to ask my lead guitarist to leave just last week. We had a gig for NYE, booked it with everyone's knowledge in May. A few days ago, he told me he wouldn't do the gig as he'd found another which was better paid. About 2 hours later, after a flurry of emails with him claiming that the band's success was all down to the quality of his musicianship, he was told not to turn up for the next gig as I had found a permanent replacement. I hadn't, and was cacking it as we only had 10 days to find a dep. But find one we did and he's now covering until January, when he'll decide if he wants to join permanently. The guy had been with me for 4 years and we had become good friends with him and his wife. But I can't have someone ducking out just because of a bigger pay day. As it was, we were lucky in finding another guy so quickly. If not, it would have put us all in a spot as we only had two gigs before NYE to get someone else in. So in this case, the time scale was a matter of hours. At first, I genuinely thought I had been too hasty but we now seem to have a guy with a better feel for our music. Several regular supporters of the band have since told me that they felt the original guy took off on solos for too long and seemed to be dominating every gig. I know that's what lead guitarists are 'supposed' to do, and it was down to me allowing him to do exactly that. But it felt right at the time. So as a couple of people have mentioned above, sometimes you just go along with things for too long. Just because it's what you do and it's not easy to step back and look at things objectively. Edited October 18, 2017 by The Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkboy Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Drummers, eh? We had to break the news to one of ours. As a friend, he was one of the nicest, most generous people I’ve ever known. As a drummer, he was solid as a rock. As an alcoholic, he was just impossible to play with. Practices, he’d make numerous visits to the toilet, each time coming out slightly more inebriated. As the evening went on, it just became more and more difficult to get through a song without a screw-up on his part. The one gig we managed with him had to be cut short when he just couldnt physically finish a song - luckily it was a low-key gig which was more like a practice with a few mates round. After that, we had to have the conversation with him. He was very understanding, but we could tell it affected him deeply. Heartbreakingly, he never had the chance to recover - after the break he hit the bottle harder, and shortly after died at the age of 36. There’s not a day goes by that I don’t miss my pal, but as a drummer he’d become a liability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin8708 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 I am in a similar situation to your drummer. When you have the demands of a full time job and then go home to look after young children , you will be surprised how little time you have to pick up your bass and go through songs . I have to wait till after 10pm before I can do any practice. Luckily most of the songs we play are pub standards , which I know from previous bands , I would be scuppered if they started choosing really difficult songs to cover! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) [quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1507966644' post='3389002'] Did you give him an opportunity to resolve his issues or go straight to the sacking without him knowing. ? If he was a good drummer and an original member i would have said to him that his timing is starting to fail and he either needs to get it together or we would need to look at another drumer that can commit to the band. Think it very unfair to sack someone without offering them a chance to sort it. I would say that if you haven't given him a chance and just gone behind his back then that is sneaky and not acceptable in my opinion. The one thing you can't do is just put up with it and then sack him. Communication is vital in a band. Dave [/quote] This is very much my thought. We recently lost our drummer, he was actually sh*t hot most of the time but there were personality clashes and the band don't talk about anything serious. I thought we'd agreed our band leader would go and talk to him, he was probably on the point of leaving anyway but in the end he was sent an email full of self justification about why he wasn't wanted. If you are going to just sack someone at least make it quick and clear, only give reasons if someone asks. No-one really wants to hear a list of what's wrong if it's too late to change things. In another band I had problems with a guitarist not learning his parts. I asked him how committed he was as he clearly wasn't putting in a lot of work in the woodshed. He came back with the explanation that he was trying out with a number of bands to see which would fly and accepted he needed to commit more to us. We'll see but the discussion was only about music nothing personal and everyone is now clear. Actually I like the guy but that wasn't any part of the debate. We'll see how it works out and I guess if we make little progress then he might go back to his other bands. That's fair enough, it's all out in the open. Sometimes it's easier to say the hard things rather than run away, isn't it? Maybe I'm just a b*****d. Edited October 18, 2017 by Phil Starr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaskaleftybass Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Sadly, if the band is making inroads to better gigs the sooner the better, before it becomes intolerable. If the friend is a real friend they'll understand. Hopefully you can maintain that friendship after the gig if the reason was he was too busy. It sounds heartless but business is heartless. The weak bands won't get the gigs. Strong bands with good players will always be first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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