Slap bass - no longer mainstream?

[Cuzzie]

I agree it will be interesting.

Personally it’s not really me, but I can see the need for it, and something like what you did, Meshell N’Degocello, Les Claypool etc use it as an art as part of the song rather than hundreds and triplets everywhere and looks of ‘fake’ note mutes and plucks, just hurts my old ears a bit

No doubt in a few years a new thread will read, why are you using a pick when every body slaps...

[drTStingray]

Call me old fashioned, but as far as I'm concerned it's mainstream. I play some slap every day and even try and learn new lines and patterns. I suppose my practice routine includes 70% finger style and 30% slap. I also learn new finger style patterns as well.

I play some slap in all four bands I play in, I think in moderation.

I always recall something a rockabilly guitarist of advancing years told some time ago - upright slap bass is very impressive - for about 3 songs.... some of these guys don't play any proper bass lines. I tend to agree with this - too much gets boring.

Rather like too much flat wound string thumpy bass - ok but it's rather one dimensional unless played like, for instance Pino with John Mayer where he plays with a lot of dynamics.

I'm all for variation in styles of bass - why limit yourself - there are a whole range of styles available.

Edited October 15, 2017 by drTStingray

[stingrayPete1977]

I'm not sure a bunch of old guys slapping in the tickled trout makes it "mainstream"?

[BassBus]

Pick, anyone? :-D

[drTStingray]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1508146002' post='3389993']
I'm not sure a bunch of old guys slapping in the tickled trout makes it "mainstream"?
[/quote]

Maybe slapping tickled trout....

On the contrary, most young bass players I come
across can and do play slap bass - I find it's generally some of the old guys who've never learnt how, or who only like a very narrow range of music (eg country and western) who seem to object to it!!

[stingrayPete1977]

I think it depends what you call "main stream" then, I'd class it as modern stuff on the radio.

[Al Krow]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1508242739' post='3390748']
I think it depends what you call "main stream" then, I'd class it as modern stuff on the radio.
[/quote]

Then you'd have to ask which radio? The most popular "mainstream" radio channels are, I'm guessing, Radios 2, 4 and 1 followed by Classic FM in that order? Never been much slap on any of those, [i]ever[/i], methinks! Probably the most popular slap incorporating band was Jamiroquoi and I'm not sure how much airtime they got compared to other more "popular" (but often massively less capable) bands?

I'd probably define mainstream a little differently = a style used by well recognised and well respected rock and pop musicians. How does that sound?

[drTStingray]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1508243287' post='3390754']
I'd probably define mainstream a little differently = a style used by well recognised and well respected rock and pop musicians. How does that sound?
[/quote]

It's a style which came out of black American R and B and transferred into all related genres (disco, funk, jazz funk, even hip hop). It also transferred into R and B influenced pop (I'm talking Seal, M People etc etc).

Rock musicians have generally not played slap - even RATM could be described as a fusion of hip hop and rock. However there's quite a bit of slap in metal.

So it seems to be alive and kicking in all the genres it was originally. And sometimes in pop - even radio-played pop.

Never popular in rock bands and I guess still isn't generally. Are there a lot of rock players on here?

I don't think too much has changed.....

Edited October 17, 2017 by drTStingray

[drTStingray]

Or punk!!

[Al Krow]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1508244339' post='3390768']
It's a style which came out of black American R and B and transferred into all related genres (disco, funk, jazz funk, even hip hop). It also transferred into R and B influenced pop (I'm talking Seal, M People etc etc).

Rock musicians have generally not played slap - even RATM could be described as a fusion of hip hop and rock. However there's quite a bit of slap in metal.

So it seems to be alive and kicking in all the genres it was originally. And sometimes in pop - even radio-played pop.

Never popular in rock bands and I guess still isn't generally. Are there a lot of rock players on here?

I don't think too much has changed.....
[/quote]

That's a nice bit of historical background - cheers! I would suggest that RHCP were, however, very much a rock band and Mr Flea had a liking for the occasional bit of slap

[blue]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1507401280' post='3385278']
Been playing over 40 years, never played slap, never wanted to, never been asked to.
[/quote]

Same here, 50 years, no 5 strings,and no slap.

Blue

Edited October 17, 2017 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1508244339' post='3390768']


It's a style which came out of black American R and B and transferred into all related genres (disco, funk, jazz funk, even hip hop). It also transferred into R and B influenced pop (I'm talking Seal, M People etc etc).

Rock musicians have generally not played slap - even RATM could be described as a fusion of hip hop and rock. However there's quite a bit of slap in metal.

So it seems to be alive and kicking in all the genres it was originally. And sometimes in pop - even radio-played pop.

Never popular in rock bands and I guess still isn't generally. Are there a lot of rock players on here?

I don't think too much has changed.....
[/quote]

I would hope I would be considered a rock player from the 60s & 70s. Probably why slap has bever been a part of my playing

Blue

[stingrayPete1977]

I wouldn't limit myself beyond my own lack of ability, having an extra string and being able to slap are just two more strings to your bow imo.

[Misdee]

It's fair to say that slap bass certainly isn't as mainstream as it once was :- listen to the Top 40 from just about any week in the 1980's and it was epidemic - but it still has a place. There is no reason why bass players of any generation can't use this technique tastefully and imaginatively. As Duke Ellington famously said: if it sounds good, it is good.

As a bass player who started playing in the late 70's, I like a bit of slap now and again, especially if it has an old-school vibe. In no way am I primarily a slapper, but like Dr T, I enjoy playing that style and practice it regularly. Nothing wrong with that!

[blue]

Very few use slap effectively on a consistent basis, IMO.

Mark King is the only one that comes to mind.

Blue

[Leonard Smalls]

Aye, Mr. King is the only bass player who slaps consistantly.
That Marcus Miller, Larry Graham, Flea, Doug Wimbish, Stuart Hamm, Victor Wooten, Louis Johnson, Abraham Laborial, Freddie Washington, Stanley Clarke, Jonas Hellborg, Bootsy, Les Claypool, Bill Dickens, TM Stevens etc always get it wrong and should stick to playing roots and fifths with a pick!

[blue]

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1508313093' post='3391203']
Aye, Mr. King is the only bass player who slaps consistantly.
That Marcus Miller, Larry Graham, Flea, Doug Wimbish, Stuart Hamm, Victor Wooten, Louis Johnson, Abraham Laborial, Freddie Washington, Stanley Clarke, Jonas Hellborg, Bootsy, Les Claypool, Bill Dickens, TM Stevens etc always get it wrong and should stick to playing roots and fifths with a pick!

[/quote]

I associate King with more of a dedicated slap performance and approach. The others you mention are not tied to the hip by slap IMO.

Blue

[stingrayPete1977]

I agree with blue on that, king and flea are the two most main stream slappers but flea has had far more hits and most without slap or only bits and bobs in a song.

[drTStingray]

It's interesting the RHCP, Flea and slap thing. However, like RATM with rock infused with hip hop, RHCP's early material was a sort of rock meets punk meets funk and Flea has said he was quite influenced by Louis Johnson. Stuff like Sir Psycho Sexy is pure funk - even a little like Funkadelic. Their hits have tended to be of the less funky, more rocky type. Having been around 30 yrs + they have a wealth of material - in some eras the material contained more funk - and more slap bass.

Mark King and Level 42 started off at the height of jazz funk around 1980 - and a lot of their early material was built around slap bass, and keyboard laden jazz funk (Prophet 5 particularly). Some of their later hits were far more rocky, and perhaps featured those elements less. But much of their famous hit back catalogue is from that 1981-1989 sort of era, many with slap bass grooves.

After a gig a couple of weeks ago, I sat at home watching a TOTP from 1984 - and particularly paid attention because it was from around the week my daughter was born so it was quite personally nostalgic - I think there were three songs played virtually throughout on slap bass - Too Shy Kadjagoogoo, Hot Water Level 42, Young Guns by Wham. That is certainly a lot more than you'd expect now - indeed you would sometimes have problems even hearing the bass on some modern songs. For those with statistic interest there were 5 songs with keyboard bass either throughout or largely (two double tracking slap bass), 3 Arias, 3 Wals, 2 Fender J, one Fender P, one JD - IIRC 😀

This would certainly give a flavour of pop singles at that time - however I disagree that this is a description of 'mainstream' as if you're using importance by record sales and financial turnover, album sales and bands focussing on them have been more important than singles since the end of the 60s - beware definitions based on 60s thinking as it was very different then, many artists being thoroughly ripped off by the industry, which was focussed on single sales, sometimes by dubious means at that time.

There are/were loads of main stream slap bassists it just depends what you mean by mainstream - the original bass player in Incubus (Dirk Lance?) was a formidable slap bassist - both Nick Fyffe and Stuart Zender in Jamiroquy - even Pino in Paul Young's band. If you're a metal fan there are probably loads of mainstream slap bass players.

If you're talking pop singles they are few and far between now - the last I remember was Uptown Funk - the first I was ever aware of was Car Wash. So back in the mid 80s a typical TOTP might have 20-30% - but more notably - nearly 40% on keyboard - and amazingly (by today's standards), 100% with bass playing a crucial part in the song and very audible in the mix.

Edited October 18, 2017 by drTStingray

[Al Krow]

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1508313093' post='3391203']
Aye, Mr. King is the only bass player who slaps consistantly. That Marcus Miller, Larry Graham, Flea, Doug Wimbish, Stuart Hamm, Victor Wooten, Louis Johnson, Abraham Laborial, Freddie Washington, Stanley Clarke, Jonas Hellborg, Bootsy, Les Claypool, Bill Dickens, TM Stevens etc always get it wrong and should stick to playing roots and fifths with a pick!

[/quote]

Lol!

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1508324686' post='3391340']
It's interesting the RHCP, Flea and slap thing...with bass playing a crucial part in the song and very audible in the mix.
[/quote]

Really good post, thanks.

[alaskaleftybass]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1507464379' post='3385586']
If you were around in the 80s, if you couldn't slap you'd be quite likely to fail an audition.

Used tastefully it can create a nice dynamic change - and from my experience, audiences find it exciting and like it.

Of the bass players I know locally, there are very few who use the technique and probably a similar number who can't actually do it.

It's well worth using, in my view, as long as you do it tastefully.
[/quote]

I respectfully disagree. I played the entire decade as a professional touring musician and never slapped. I was able to emulate slap using a fingernail technique but never needed to slap. Today if I come across a vid on YouTube and see that blasted thumb come out on the E string I'm gone on the A train. And why does every slap solo always have to be in the key of E?

End of rant, sorry.

[scannerman]

[quote name='alaskaleftybass' timestamp='1508353793' post='3391664']
And why does every slap solo always have to be in the key of E?

[/quote]

Gm is my slap key preference!

[drTStingray]

[quote name='scannerman' timestamp='1508357072' post='3391698']


Gm is my slap key preference!
[/quote]

Mine are C and D - allows fast fretting hand slap - probably a hand size thing - I find it harder elsewhere on the fretboard.

[drTStingray]

[quote name='alaskaleftybass' timestamp='1508353793' post='3391664']


I respectfully disagree. I played the entire decade as a professional touring musician and never slapped. I was able to emulate slap using a fingernail technique but never needed to slap.
[/quote]

I did something similar in the mid 70s, never having seen film of anyone doing but had heard things like Car Wash - once I saw the likes of Stanley Clarke I tried to copy the technique - I'm still learning even now!! 😕

[Cuzzie]

Just to add to the reasons behind slap especially in the R&B, rap genre.
The percussive technique of slap was also primarily developed to combat having the lack of a drum kit, the bass was doing the bass line and the drum job.

Similar to how Rap and hip hop got into sampling, simply because the original pioneers did not have easy access to ‘real’ instruments to make music, hence things were sampled and patched together