Why does high action sound better than low?

[markdavid]

Been wondering why high action always seems to give better tone than low action, my first thought is that higher action allows the string more room to move and whilst there may be some truth in this and this would make a convincing argument I would suspect that this would be limited to fretted notes and in my experience is that the tone of open strings seems to improve as well with higher action.

My personal preferences are for fairly low action and I generally aim for around 1.7mm at 12th fret but the truth is that the basses that I cannot get the action that low actually sound better for the higher action (my bass with highest action is around 2mm and the tone on that bass is just punchier,thumpier and more lively.

[discreet]

I've thought for a long time that a higher action sounds better and try to play with the highest action possible (within the bounds of playability). I prefer a low action like yourself, but the tone always seems a bit choked to me. As for open strings sounding better with high action - the open strings still have more room to vibrate over the pickup as they're that much further away, regardless of whether you're fretting or not. My opinion only - I'm no scientist.

[cheddatom]

I agree, sounds better, lower action sounds "choked" as discreet says, no idea if there's any truth in it

[discreet]

There is also the question of how hard you play... I know some people like to tickle the strings, in which case a low action is more appropriate. But I tend to play relatively hard, whether with fingers or pick. I've tried playing softly and letting the amp do the work, but all that goes out of the window as soon as I get excited about something. Lack of control and crap technique, obviously.

Edited September 19, 2017 by discreet

[Osiris]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1505820284' post='3374520']
There is also the question of how hard you play... I know some people like to tickle the strings, in which case a low action is more appropriate. But I tend to play relatively hard, whether with fingers or pick. I've tried playing softly and letting the amp do the work, but all that goes out of the window as soon as I get excited about something. Lack of control and crap technique, obviously.
[/quote]

You and me both

But I like a low action and a bit of fret clank anyway.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

I don't really buy into this theory... How does the string know how far away it is from the neck? I mean, a string with lower action surely 'moves' as much as one set up a bit lower?
Also with adjustable pickups you should be able to keep the optimun height regardless of action.
Happy to be proved wrong of course but it's never really made sense to me.

[fleabag]

Nor me

As for the string vibrating more over the pickup, how can that even be true ? At the pickup end, the string is barely moving at all

As for high or low action, If the string doesn't hit the frets anywhere at all, then its not going to choke and will vibrate the same whether low or high

A high action will make a difference when the string is fretted, though

[MacDaddy]

Me too. My basses all have low actions. I don't think they sound worse than when I tweak the action higher.

[Dood]

The break angle over the saddles or nut can make a difference it seems. A higher action, meaning the saddles are much higher means that the string going over the saddle down to where the ball end is mounted, will have a greater force being applied to the top of the saddle. Or to put it another way, the string will be more tightly anchored to the saddle. The same *can* happen for the nut. I have a bass with a string retainer on it. I took the retainer off as I decided to spray it a different colour. With the bass tuned up to standard pitch, there was a noticeable (not massive though) difference to the tone of the open strings. The string being pulled down tightly against the nut made a difference to the tone. Which is annoying as I really don't like string retainers over all strings! Guess I need to find a slotted 'quick release' version!

[Dood]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1505825026' post='3374565']
The break angle over the saddles or nut can make a difference it seems. A higher action, meaning the saddles are much higher means that the string going over the saddle down to where the ball end is mounted, will have a greater force being applied to the top of the saddle. Or to put it another way, the string will be more tightly anchored to the saddle. The same *can* happen for the nut. I have a bass with a string retainer on it. I took the retainer off as I decided to spray it a different colour. With the bass tuned up to standard pitch, there was a noticeable (not massive though) difference to the tone of the open strings. The string being pulled down tightly against the nut made a difference to the tone. Which is annoying as I really don't like string retainers over all strings! Guess I need to find a slotted 'quick release' version!
[/quote]


Furthermore, I remember watching a science program about Piano design and the 'inventors' of a system managed to make a like for like piano sound more resonant and detailed in tone. I think they used a similar method of bilateral string mounting. I'd have to look that up though!!

[markdavid]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1505825026' post='3374565']
The break angle over the saddles or nut can make a difference it seems. A higher action, meaning the saddles are much higher means that the string going over the saddle down to where the ball end is mounted, will have a greater force being applied to the top of the saddle. Or to put it another way, the string will be more tightly anchored to the saddle. The same *can* happen for the nut. I have a bass with a string retainer on it. I took the retainer off as I decided to spray it a different colour. With the bass tuned up to standard pitch, there was a noticeable (not massive though) difference to the tone of the open strings. The string being pulled down tightly against the nut made a difference to the tone. Which is annoying as I really don't like string retainers over all strings! Guess I need to find a slotted 'quick release' version!
[/quote] Thats a very good point and something I had not thought of , that would also explain why the difference is there whether a note is fretted or open

[Dood]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1505825225' post='3374570']
Furthermore, I remember watching a science program about Piano design and the 'inventors' of a system managed to make a like for like piano sound more resonant and detailed in tone. I think they used a similar method of bilateral string mounting. I'd have to look that up though!!
[/quote]

I'm looking for the news piece on this, but I ca only find the Barenboim Piano - which I don't think is the piece I recall. I'll look some more.

[A.G.E.N.T.E.]

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1505820667' post='3374524'] I don't really buy into this theory... How does the string know how far away it is from the neck? I mean, a string with lower action surely 'moves' as much as one set up a bit lower? Also with adjustable pickups you should be able to keep the optimun height regardless of action. Happy to be proved wrong of course but it's never really made sense to me. [/quote]

+1
IMO, The pickup magnetic field will afect string vibration and consequently the sound (wether you can hear it or not) So, i guess the distance between strings and pickups will have it´s consequences... not the action.

[SpondonBassed]

I used to favour a low action. When I put my kit build together I ended up with a playable bass but only at max neck relief and with the saddles bottomed out on the B and G. The action is as high as I've ever had and been able to fret with precision. It needs a neck shim to allow it to be set up for low action at all. It's fair enough for a kit build.

One day I might be ar5ed enough to do something about it. The thing is, it plays really well. It's got the nicest tone of any bass I've owned. This in part is due to it having a fully body with a nice set of D'Addarios as opposed to my headless stuff. I still think that the high action helps. My playing is adapting well enough to the higher strings up the neck so I'll carry on with it until there is a pressing need to dismantle it.

What I'm interested to find out is how the low action will feel when I take out one of the headless ones again.

I like a bit of a tickle on the strings for certain songs when the amp is up loud. The Beatles' [i]Michelle[/i] for an example. I also like to have a good old pluck or pick with a hard plectrum. I can do both now. Before I had to pluck across to avoid fret crash. Now I can pluck with impunity.

I think its good to try all sorts of set-ups at least once or twice.

Edited September 19, 2017 by SpondonBassed

[xgsjx]

I lowered my action a few years back. I can play a lot faster on a lower action as it requires a lighter touch. If you don't like the sound, try lowering the pickups a bit. I did & it made a huge difference to the sound.

It's something to do with the air vibrations between the strings & the pickups. The distance from string to pickup changes the length of these waves.

The further the string is from the pickup, the less bass & treble it will have. Though if you get too close, it can make your strings clank off the magnets.

If you like your action high, you can still bring the strings closer to the pickups by simply adjusting the pickups.
If you don't want to adjust the string distance but want a lower action, try putting a shim under the neck.

Edited September 19, 2017 by xgsjx

[cheddatom]

forgetting pickups and magnetic fields, I'm convinced I can hear the differences acoustically - am I just imagining this?

[Conan]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1505830694' post='3374615']
forgetting pickups and magnetic fields, I'm convinced I can hear the differences acoustically - am I just imagining this?
[/quote]

No, I'm with you on that one. No idea why though... Amplitude of string vibration perhaps?

[discreet]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1505825026' post='3374565']
The break angle over the saddles or nut can make a difference it seems.
[/quote]

That could be it. I know that if you don't take care to get a good break angle over the nut on a Fender-style bass, particularly on the A string, you can have problems.

[cheddatom]

I feel like if I play a bass with a sufficiently high action, the note gets to it's "fullest" quicker than a bass with a low action - same on guitar. Again I'm probably just imagining things

[Norris]

Perhaps the higher action allows the fundamental frequency to ring better? It will have a larger string deflection than the overtones. There again if you are getting no fret crashing at all, then I don't know. I keep my action in "dig in" adjustment

[lowdown]

No idea why it sounds better, but high action all the way for me. Finger style, slap and palm mute all seem to have more definition and a meatier sound,
not to mention when DI'd, no fret clank. I found when I tried a low action I tended to tickle the strings (I like to dig in a bit) and it sounded feeble, indistinct and lost in the mix.
I don't have any problem with strength, fast playing or articulation, maybe that's because I play double bass as well - Bass Guitar seems like playing cotton wool.

Edited September 19, 2017 by lowdown

[bubinga5]

Whats everyones definition of choking.?

[cheddatom]

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1505833964' post='3374642']
Whats everyones definition of choking.?
[/quote]

This is a weird one but... if you strike a tom tom with a drum stick, but "bury" the stick - leave it touching the head - this chokes the sound and you get less of the note. If you let the stick bounce off after hitting the head, the drum sounds out properly. That's what I mean by "choking" and it's a similar effect on my basses

Edited September 19, 2017 by cheddatom

[chris_b]

Does high action sound better than low action? No. . . . it depends how your bass is set up and how you play it.

If your strings are hitting the frets to the point that the notes are prevented from sounding good then it's either a bad set up or inappropriate technique. Don't blame the action!

If you want a low action you can't just crank the bridge saddles down to make the bass play easier. That's only half the job. You've got to make sure the frets are even, the nut and pickups are at the right height and your technique is such that you can play the strings with a much lighter touch. Then the low action can work and sound good.

If you "dig in" then only a higher action will work.

[bubinga5]

Am i missing something. I havent read the whole thread properly so do correct me.

My definition of choking a note, is because the string at some point along the neck is too close to the frets. Of course there is a buzz you get, but depending on the relief of the neck and also the trueness and levelling of the frets, one will get a few choked notes.


A super low action will go past the buzzing point and choke a note/s.?

A higher action will let the strings vibrate.?


I really dont think pickup height has anything to do with it.

Edited September 19, 2017 by bubinga5