Cover band bass tone

[dmccombe7]

Depending on set list and what amp i use i generally get myself a good amp sound and just vary the tone from my bass between a more treble sound where i need an edge and a more rounde tone that does majority. Usually Jazz tone set half way or thereabouts.
Try not to adjust the amp too often.

Dave

[drTStingray]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1501061657' post='3342119']

Some of the songs in your list were recorded on a P bass so no onboard EQ and only 1 pickup on the original.

If you are saying that not copying the tone on the record makes your playing just adequate then I'd strongly disagree. As I said before, you can play every song with a different tone if you want to, but that isn't necessary. It's your playing that will make or break the song and make you a good or just adequate player.
[/quote]

I agree and disagree with these points - yes your playing can make a massive difference but not all of it.

I know some of the songs were recorded on a P and almost deliberately inserted them - some most definitely weren't!! A recorded P bass from the 60s often sounds nothing like a P bass live - by the 70s they were putting things like Alembic preamps in front of them in the studio to get them to sound good on hi fi stereos at home.

The biggest area I disagree on is that the same (ish) tone suits all songs on bass. It most certainly doesn't unless the bass part and it's sound and presence in the mix on the record renders it a backing/support instrument. This is rarely the case in 70s/80s music with any R and B influence where the bass in a fundamental part.

Playing All Right Now or Le Freak on a J is about as wrong for me as playing the sax solo on careless whisper or baker st on a synthesiser or guitar. It would sound adequate - and different enough to maybe make it less enjoyable.

Recent (ish) performances by Jamiroquay and Brand New Heavies (despite both bass players ranking amongst my most revered and favourite) were marred by the bass sounds being less prominent than I would view as essential to their music - in studio these guys sound great as well - time to crack out the active basses to get the 80s/90s effect???

Edited July 26, 2017 by drTStingray

[BigRedX]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1501010104' post='3341792']
I disagree.

Blue
[/quote]

EQ is an effect. Therefore they are the same.

[drTStingray]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1501088564' post='3342430']


EQ is an effect. Therefore they are the same.
[/quote]

Sorry to muscle in on Blue's debate here but I fundamentally disagree.

On board EQ is just a more efficient and comprehensive version of a single tone control. Think hi fi rather than Dansette (60s/70s teens will particularly get this analogy).

Talking of effects and distortion effect, I have played a Cliff and the Shadows song from the very early 60s which has distortion on the bass in a gig and got virtually the same effect playing my classic Stingray hard, with the treble turned up against full bass on the guitar's EQ, through my MarkBass set up with no pedals!! I was well impressed as was the band. The remainder of the set was thumpy but defined (like a 60s recorded P bass) played over the neck joint - moving bridge wards occassionally for extra definition.

[SH73]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1500993944' post='3341579']
What are your guitarists doing with regards to matching the guitar sounds on the songs you are playing?
[/quote]
I own a Fender mustang which came with Fender Fuse software. The amp has many presets and when connected to laptop yiu can tweak the sound. Yiu can also download presets from community. I found a sound which I tweaked and it is very close to Somewhere in Time IM tone. There are thousands of variations.
I'm still experimenting with Amplitube 4.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1501091671' post='3342468']
Sorry to muscle in on Blue's debate here but I fundamentally disagree.

On board EQ is just a more efficient and comprehensive version of a single tone control. Think hi fi rather than Dansette (60s/70s teens will particularly get this analogy).

Talking of effects and distortion effect, I have played a Cliff and the Shadows song from the very early 60s which has distortion on the bass in a gig and got virtually the same effect playing my classic Stingray hard, with the treble turned up against full bass on the guitar's EQ, through my MarkBass set up with no pedals!! I was well impressed as was the band. The remainder of the set was thumpy but defined (like a 60s recorded P bass) played over the neck joint - moving bridge wards occassionally for extra definition.
[/quote]

EQ alters the sound that has been captured by the pickup(s). Therefore it is an effect.

[drTStingray]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1501093819' post='3342492']


EQ alters the sound that has been captured by the pickup(s). Therefore it is an effect.
[/quote]

Not if they are set at neutral - beyond that they can cut and boost. Are passive tone controls effects?

This could be taken to the nth degree. The pick up design and state, the electronic component condition (eg capacitors), height of pick ups, volume control, strength and position of plucking etc all change the sound - they could all be classed as effects.

I view effects as outboard devices changing the signal significantly such as a distortion/drive, chorus, delay, flanger, phaser etc etc.

The idea that onboard EQ is an effect, to me, is a non standard viewpoint. Unless you're talking external EQ unit and even then I wonder.

Edited July 26, 2017 by drTStingray

[Rich]

I'm sure 99% of the punters neither know nor care if my tone is similar to the original or not. But here's the thing: my main motivation for using different sounds to try to emulate the original is that [u]I want to[/u]. I like the whole tone-shaping process, and yes this probably makes me a bit of a nerd but I don't care

[BigRedX]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1501095624' post='3342516']
Not if they are set at neutral - beyond that they can cut and boost. Are passive tone controls effects?

This could be taken to the nth degree. The pick up design and state, the electronic component condition (eg capacitors), height of pick ups, volume control, strength and position of plucking etc all change the sound - they could all be classed as effects.

I view effects as outboard devices changing the signal significantly such as a distortion/drive, chorus, delay, flanger, phaser etc etc.

The idea that onboard EQ is an effect, to me, is a non standard viewpoint. Unless you're talking external EQ unit and even then I wonder.
[/quote]

Firstly where is the neutral point of an EQ circuit? It's certainly not the one with all the knobs in the centre position. Every component in the signal path will be affecting (effecting) that signal to some degree. Just listen to the difference between a guitar our bass with the pickup connected directly to the output socket and the same instrument with a passive volume and tone control wired in, even if they are both set to maximum.

Even simple passive EQ circuits have the potential to change the signal significantly. If they didn't there would be little point in having them.

[BrunoBass]

[quote name='Les' timestamp='1501024807' post='3341946']


What bass do you use ? I'm recently on a jazz and I love it. Tends to be both pickups on full and roll the treble off for a plec but I'm toying with the idea of rolling the bridge pickup off to play with a plec hoping that will give me the extra bass I want.
[/quote]

A Jazz and a Stingray.

On the Jazz I have neck pickup 100%, bridge pickup just coming in til it bites, around 30% but adjusted depending on the song, and the tone around 40% for fingers and 30% for a pick.

On the Stingray it's bass 100%, and treble backed off to about 75% (it's a 2eq) and slightly less for a pick.

I'm pretty happy with those settings as a starting point for the way I play.

Edited July 26, 2017 by PaulGibsonBass

[blue]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1501088564' post='3342430']


EQ is an effect. Therefore they are the same.
[/quote]

Maybe, but not by my definition.

Blue

[bazzbass]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1500994245' post='3341583']
I don't want to say it's all in the fingers but to be honest it's all it the fingers!

[/quote]

let's say you playing a Cure song with heavy chorus, tell me exactly how you do that with just your fingers? Do you trail one plucking finger by .02 seconds for the chorus effect?

Seriously , there are some sounds you can only get with effect units, chorus, fuzz,etc. You CAN'T get fuzz from your fingers.

Your hypothesis lacks any credibility.

Yeah I too can go trebly and tight by plucking near the bridge and fat sounding by playing at the end of the fretboard, but it won't recreate effects.

Edited July 27, 2017 by bazztard

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1501131630' post='3342666']


let's say you playing a Cure song with heavy chorus, tell me exactly how you do that with just your fingers? Do you trail one plucking finger by .02 seconds for the chorus effect?

Seriously , there are some sounds you can only get with effect units, chorus, fuzz,etc. You CAN'T get fuzz from your fingers.

Your hypothesis lacks any credibility.

Yeah I too can go trebly and tight by plucking near the bridge and fat sounding by playing at the end of the fretboard, but it won't recreate effects.
[/quote]


At the same time if you had the exact bass/amp/fx in your hands that the record was recorded with then played it slap when it was played muted with a pick I'd say my cover without chorus but with the same technique would be closer to what the public hear.

[chris_b]

All Right Now can't sound good on a Fender? You can't play a Cure song without the help of half a dozen pedals?

I guess JJ Burnell should have played Walk On By on double bass because that's what the original hit was recorded on.

How can this be making any sense? You guys are so stuck in your tunnel vision you should take a step back. . . and. . . breath. . .

[Telebass]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1501000107' post='3341674']
You know what I'd still argue that the attack from a pick played with some gusto but no big muff would suit the track better than someone with a Ricky and some dirt but tickling it finger style.
[/quote]
Yup, pick near the bridge and GO for it!

[drTStingray]

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1501099555' post='3342565']
here's the thing: my main motivation for using different sounds to try to emulate the original is that [u]I want to[/u]. I like the whole tone-shaping process, and yes this probably makes me a bit of a nerd but I don't care
[/quote]

I think tone is all part of being a musician, be it a good, average or poor one. I think most of us strive to be above average at least, if not much better than that.

Not worrying about tone and how the bass contributes (in the case of a cover song, contributed) to the tone and feel of the song to me is accepting approximation which may spoil some listener's experience. Each to their own view but I don't subscribe to the view that the bass sound is not important to a piece - it's actually quite fundamental in my view.

Level 42 without a Prophet 5 or something which can emulate it pretty accurately, for me as a fan of their music, would be a washout. As would Mark King playing a Precision, in terms of the affect on the sound of the band.

I think it all depends, as a musician, how much you accept approximations. I've played in bands where arrangements of songs have been performed which miss out fundamental hooks (note hooks can be bass hooks), use inaccurate and less effective chord voicings etc etc. No doubt the band sounded competent but is this good musicianship - depends on your viewpoint but my view is it's not.

My view is you need to have a bass which has a range of potential sounds as well as being a reasonably flexible and skilled musician to do cover work well.

Edited July 27, 2017 by drTStingray

[Geek99]

One sound (ampeg svt ) on my zoom and a p bass. I do everything else using the onboard tone and playing in a different spot as needed. It works for Plectrum too on the rare occasions that I need one.
Keep it simple

[Cat Burrito]

Personally I adjust my playing technique to fit the song and try not to get too focused on kit.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1501142453' post='3342735']
All Right Now can't sound good on a Fender? You can't play a Cure song without the help of half a dozen pedals?

I guess JJ Burnell should have played Walk On By on double bass because that's what the original hit was recorded on.

How can this be making any sense? You guys are so stuck in your tunnel vision you should take a step back. . . and. . . breath. . .
[/quote]

Maybe if it was a tribute act and the whole band were trying to get everything close for every song but it's impossible and ridiculous with a regular pub/function covers band, our band covers songs from six different decades and different genres, we'd need an articulated lorry full of kit at each gig to keep BigredX happy!

[Happy Jack]

But what tone would you use for a discussion that disappears up its own fundament(al)?

[Geek99]

A retentive one ?

[drTStingray]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1501152727' post='3342847']
But what tone would you use for a discussion that disappears up its own fundament(al)?
[/quote]

One which is better than simply adequate - mind you if it disappeared up its own fundamental it could be considered on a par with the semi-inaudible background bass heard on some modern mixes.

[tinyd]

I saw a covers band in a pub near me a while ago and the bass player played slap lines on a large part of the set, regardless of genre. On paper, this would normally ring all sorts of alarm bells for me but he (and the band) really made it work, injecting a bit of life into the set and getting everyone dancing. So I guess this would indicate that you're better off arranging the songs in an interesting way and playing to your strengths rather than worrying too much about replicating the tone from specific recordings.

[Sibob]

I play in a covers band that ranges from 60's to modern-day stuff and just use a '71 Precision with flats (or my P/J Lakland with the P solo'd, rounds on that, tone backed off a bit). We don't particularly try to sound like the original band/recording, very much do our own thing arrangement and general 'vibe' wise, so I guess that makes it easy to carve a space for myself. If you're trying to accurately approximate Mark King in the 80's, a Precision won't do it......but we're not interested in being a tribute act, much more interesting doing our own thing with the songs.
The Precision sits in the mix beautifully and doesn't thin out when playing up high. A sprinkling of some effects, octave, envelope, overdrive and it's all there. No EQ tweaks at all, only take a second bass in case a string breaks (hasn't happened in 10 years, but you never know).
If you're interested in having a listen, bunch of live stuff here, these are my Precision with Chromes, Little Mark II with my Barefaced Super Compact mic'd with an SM57:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEEfKwixZBpOacl2xdsZJcA

Si

[Geek99]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1501235964' post='3343463']
I play in a covers band that ranges from 60's to modern-day stuff and just use a '71 Precision with flats (or my P/J Lakland with the P solo'd, rounds on that, tone
[/quote]
nice tone there
That lady can really sing - why is she not in the photos?