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The demise of the CD?


oldbass
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Having read the article, the phrase "Key market niche" is the important bit.Carry on listening to 19th century technology all you want, I'll continue to embrace the 21st century and record and listen to lossless digital and uncompressed CD's that don't require a 4 figure sum's worth of audio system to get the best out of and don't crackle and skip. Ahhh nostalgia.It's big business.

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[quote name='Hellzero' timestamp='1498838493' post='3327496'] And no human can hear below 20 Hz or above 20 KHz, that's a fact, so the good old 16 bits 44,1 KHz cd is the perfect solution for music or sound. There is no need for something else and THAT is the real problem in a world ruled by marketing and planned obsolescence. [/quote]
You say that, but when you're trying to record the Dog Whistle Ensemble's latest album...

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The compression thing is all to do with how the signal is processed to appeal to the market. This is totally independent of the reproduction method - except that the CD allows you to compress more and still be able to fit it it on a CD, whereas an LP cannot support that degree of compression.

If you copy an original vinyl to CD through half decent gear then you won't know the difference on play back, it will all be there, complete with surface noise and scratches.

The good news is that a half decent CD player costs a fraction of a half decent record deck, and the CD will still sound the same in 20 years time, whereas an LP won't (if you've played it at all).

An LP might sound good, or even better, according to taste, but to claim it's amore accurate reproduction is just silly.

Edited by Count Bassy
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[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1498911007' post='3327922']
The compression thing is all to do with how the signal is processed to appeal to the market. This is totally independent of the reproduction method - except that the CD allows you to compress more and still be able to fit it it on a CD, whereas an LP cannot support that degree of compression.

If you copy an original vinyl to CD through half decent gear then you won't know the difference on play back, it will all be there, complete with surface noise and scratches.

The good news is that a half decent CD player costs a fraction of a half decent record deck, and the CD will still sound the same in 20 years time, whereas an LP won't (if you've played it at all).

An LP might sound good, or even better, according to taste, but to claim it's amore accurate reproduction is just silly.
[/quote]

Spot on. "Sounds better" is personal perception

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I have been a big classic rock head for 40 years and my turntable keeps me happy when listening to recordings by 'Zep, Free, Purple etc. IME these sound so much better on vinyl. I have listened to the various attempts to remaster and transfer many of such these analogue recordings onto CD and so far, I have failed to be impressed. My Turntable is Clearaudio Concept, cartridge is Dynavector 10x5 and phono amp is a Dynavector p75. Like it or not, one has to spend quite a bit on a turntable set up to get the best out of Vinyl.
Nowadays I purchase the majority of my music on CD, as pretty much all modern recordings are digital and my ears tell me that the Vinyl alternative dors not offer any sonic advantages.
CD can sound fantastic,but as has been pointed out the 'loudness war' has really let the format down and the more revealing your hi fi system is, the worse these recordings sound (My Cd player is Priamre CD32). I remember purchasing 'Californication' by the RHCP on CD and returning it for another copy as it sounded like a bag of spanners. The replacement copy sounded no better and this album is a victim of the loudness war IMO. However it was a big seller so what do I know. However a properly mixed and mastered album can sound tremendous on CD.
I do plan to to invest in a streaming set up to integrate with my hi fi, as that is where the future lies IMO and envisage ripping my CD's and Vinyl collection onto a hard drive for the purposes of convenience. I have recorded original vinyl pressings onto CD and the results have been very good.
I don't get this notion that part of the vinyl replay experience is partly of a tactile nature. For me, it's a pain in the ass having to clean records, stylus' etc, but if I want to listen to 'Made in Japan', then at the moment it will have to be vinyl all the way IME.

Edited by leroydiamond
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[quote name='Hellzero' timestamp='1498838493' post='3327496']
The bandwidth goes from 20 Hz to 15 KHz, when the cd goes from 0 Hz to 20kHz.


Stop asking yourself which one is better and simply listen to the music, don't listen to your system...

And no human can hear below 20 Hz or above 20 KHz, that's a fact, so the good old 16 bits 44,1 KHz cd is the perfect solution for music or sound.

The only improvement is the suppression of the mechanical movement and THAT is also done.
[/quote]

FM radio had a max frequency of 15kHz... Vinyl can go beyond 50kHz - in fact high quality cutting lathes have a 6dB/octave filter set at that!
Whether that's of any use is a different matter; though it's quite possible that interactions between these high and the audible frequencies give more of an impression of space and life to a recording.
Of course the original master recording has to be made on a suitable machine - frinstance a Studer A80 with 0.25mm head gap running at 30"/sec could record 100kHz - this was one of the reasons why bias frequency was set at 400+kHz!

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Hi-fi forum talk again.

My data is a real verified fact. Vinyl can't go any higher than 15 KHz, period. Never heard of nor read on nor adjusted any A80 going that high ! And I love these machines, having owned, adjusted and used a few.

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[quote name='Hellzero' timestamp='1498926495' post='3328043']
Hi-fi forum talk again.

My data is a real verified fact. Vinyl can't go any higher than 15 KHz, period. Never heard of nor read on nor adjusted any A80 going that high ! And I love these machines, having owned, adjusted and used a few.
[/quote]

While not many vinyls will have any information at those frequencies is another matter entirely, it is theoretically possible - and here's some analysis that shows it!
http://www.channld.com/vinylanalysis1.html
As the highest frequency possible is entirely down to the cutting head, the grain size of the vinyl,the quality of the head amps, the thickness of the vinyl, what's recorded on the master tape ( I know in the BBC we often limited audio to 15kHz because it was the highest likely transmitted frequency), noise present in the system; and its reproduction is dependent on stylus size and shape, quality of all the mechanical parts of the cartridge,how clean the connection to arm wires/cable to phono stage, how well coupled the cart is to headshell, tracking accuracy of both cart and arm, design of arm, isolation of turntable platter from vibration, speed stability, quality of RIAA decoding, actual frequency limits and quality of pre/power amps and whether the speakers can reproduce it!
But if they're getting it off a relatively humble Tecnodec with RB250 and Kontrapunkt B, you'll possibly get more from better set-ups! Or perhaps not...

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I still buy CD's. My car still has a cd but no bluetooth. When i get a newer car then i probably wont buy many. I also buy them as i have a cd jukebox. I did buy a record player just so I could get the Superfly album, but i doubt i will buy many.

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Guest subaudio

My 2p is that I'm glad vinyl is making a comeback, I've mainly worked on original music and have seen the money fall out of the industry, along with musicians wages since digital took over and copying/downloading stole artists royalties/living.

Anything analogue that means people start paying for music again gets my vote.

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My bands latest album is on CD and vinyl, sound wise can't really tell any difference, but I much prefer listening to it on vinyl, nostalgia has a part to play, when I first got it I spent 5 minutes just watching it go round on the turntable, but the better artwork and the fact it's a lot more effort to skip tracks meaning you actually listen to the whole album (or at least one side) is the reason I prefer vinyl. Lets face it artwork is so crappy on CD's you may as well just download it.

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