Jump to content
Why become a member? ×

what makes 70s J's sound so good?


project_c
 Share

Recommended Posts

[quote name='bakerster135' timestamp='1495620158' post='3305298']


You generally get a clearer, fatter sound from them IME, though taps/clicks/other sympathetic sounds that playing generates tend to be emphasised somewhat...The classic test is to put the guitar through a reverb or echo pedal, and shout into the pickup(s). If you can clearly hear your voice in the trail or repeats, you've got microphonics going on!
[/quote]

Yeah I think I knew about the clicks, but not the clear fat sound. Definitely no clicks going on with those pickups but the sound is crazy, it sounds almost like it's already amplified even though it's going straight into a dry headphone amp. Also out of curiosity i tried another similar bass today, a 76, and it sounded nothing like this bass, it just sounded like any other jazz, so I think there is definitely something different about this one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='project_c' timestamp='1495628662' post='3305406']


Also out of curiosity i tried another similar bass today, a 76, and it sounded nothing like this bass, it just sounded like any other jazz, so I think there is definitely something different about this one.
[/quote]

Spot on, that's why I mentioned mojo when talking about my mates CS Jazz in my first post. I've played 8-10 different CS Jazzes through my headphone set up at home in the past three years, that bass has all the characteristics you mentioned and yet on spec it's not that different to many of the others.

A friend of mine techs for Dave Swift, he told me about a time Dave got a Fender 5 string and loved it so much he ordered more, only to find they were nothing like the one he loved. They swapped pickups to see if that was it, but it must have been the specific pieces of wood (not the mojo ;) )

Edited by Chiliwailer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1495630679' post='3305433']


Spot on, that's why I mentioned mojo when talking about my mates CS Jazz in my first post. I've played 8-10 different CS Jazzes through my headphone set up at home in the past three years, that bass has all the characteristics you mentioned and yet on spec it's not that different to many of the others.

A friend of mine techs for Dave Swift, he told me about a time Dave got a Fender 5 string and loved it so much he ordered more, only to find they were nothing like the one he loved. They swapped pickups to see if that was it, but it must have been the specific pieces of wood (not the mojo ;) )
[/quote]

If that's true, it's not very good news for my bank account. I think I need a second opinion on this bass, I need to find a jazz bass expert in east london to take a look at it objectively and tell me whether it's as good as i think it is, or if i'm just being fooled by some slightly odd pickups.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='project_c' timestamp='1495631968' post='3305447']


If that's true, it's not very good news for my bank account. I think I need a second opinion on this bass, I need to find a jazz bass expert in east london to take a look at it objectively and tell me whether it's as good as i think it is, or if i'm just being fooled by some slightly odd pickups.
[/quote]

Trust your gut pal, we all like different things!

Maybe the shop could give you 48 hour approval, it's not unheard of, I've allowed that myself when I managed shops in Denmark St.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Try a Sire V7 Vintage - the 'Vintage' ones have 70s spacing - though I've played a 5 string non-Vintage with 60s spacing and it was still acely snappy and 'open' sounding like an old school Jazz, though with a chunkier than expected neck.

For you maths fans, you can get the Swamp Ash version for 16% of that £3k 'proper' price tag... and send it back if you don't dig it...
https://m.thomann.de/gb/marcus_miller_v7_vintage_swamp_ash_4_nt.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1495559818' post='3304843']
I dunno about weight being an arbiter of tone...or 70s, per se. I had a 78, all original down to case and ahtrays, and it not only weighed as much as a boat anchor that's let itself go and put on weight, it was also one of the worst, most lifeless basses I've ever played. It sounded...brown. And not a good brown, like you get from a rich walnut; more a runny, beige brown, like you get from a poorly spaniel... :( :)
[/quote]

😂 😂 😂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know a very good studio engineer/producer who's also a brilliant bassist and owns several 70s jazzes as he finds them the best basses ever. I won't mention his name as he's somebody in Poland and here he's just unpronounceable ;) He thinks it's a combination of things (obviously), but the biggest part being a heavy ash (not swamp ash) body with its grain filled by Fullerplast, that very dense, heavy stuff. He had a couple of newer basses refinished this way and claims to get very close. Then of course the pickup position, the pickups themselves etc...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1495482908' post='3304134']
I think it is timing. I started bass in the 80s and the prevailing wisdom was 'don't touch those recent mid 70s Jazz basses as they are all rubbish'
[/quote]
Same time period and I owned a late 70's Fender Jazz (serial S830880 - there's a pic of it on the forum somewhere) which wasn't that great to be honest and it put me off Jazz basses for years. The build quality was poor, it was extremely heavy, and didn't sound any better than an Ibanez lawsuit copy i had at the time. I wish I had been aware of the prevailing wisdom!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry to hijack the thread slightly, but seeing as we're on the subject of 70's Jazz particulars! Did Fender change the wind of pickups along with the other design features from the mid 70's onwards? I ask as have always toyed with changing the pups on my 1973, but was unsure if this fell under manufacturer's 60's or 70's style winds.

Edited by countjodius
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='such' timestamp='1495666728' post='3305801']
I know a very good studio engineer/producer who's also a brilliant bassist and owns several 70s jazzes as he finds them the best basses ever. I won't mention his name as he's somebody in Poland and here he's just unpronounceable ;) He thinks it's a combination of things (obviously), but the biggest part being a heavy ash (not swamp ash) body with its grain filled by Fullerplast, that very dense, heavy stuff. He had a couple of newer basses refinished this way and claims to get very close. Then of course the pickup position, the pickups themselves etc...
[/quote]
I always thought they used Swanp ash what other kind of ash would they have used? Swan ash grows in the US

I asked out of curiosity because I want to build one

Edited by Geek99
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='project_c' timestamp='1495614055' post='3305220']
I think you're right about looking for a non-pristine one. Here's a pic of the one I'm talking about, whilst it's not pristine it's definitely all original, but there's discolouring on the wood, chips on the headstock and body, hairline cracks in the binding, and the pickguard is pretty warped. The neck is straight enough but the action definitely needs to come down a bit, and I couldn't really gauge the state of the saddles and bridge because of the cover. But as it is all original, and sat in a posh shop, it has an almost 3K price tag which I can't justify.

However if these mid 70's jazzes really sound this good, I think it would make more sense to look for a refinished one instead, because it seems like a refin reduces the price by almost half. Someone suggested that the the tone I'm after is a result of the 70's electronics as well as the pickup configuration, and they said that a lot of 70's jazzes don't have the typical mid scoop with both volumes up full, they're really focussed on the mid-range. I don't know if this is true or not but I'm going to try a few 70s jazzes and see if that characteristic is there in all of them. If it's not then this bass is a one off.

[/quote]

I suppose it also depends on your resale policy. My '66 is going nowhere (barring massively unforeseen and serious circumstances). When I stop playing the kids can decide what they want to do with it. Although post CBS Leo & crew were still making the basses at this point so I think it will have risen in value by then but that was never the prime motive for buying the bass.

The neck on the bass is superb, arrow straight and no dead spots I can find, nice and light too. exceeded all my expectations

A couple of pics for you:

[attachment=245979:_MG_0002.JPG] [attachment=245980:_MG_0026.JPG]

Edited by ead
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='countjodius' timestamp='1495671885' post='3305811']
Sorry to hijack the thread slightly, but seeing as we're on the subject of 70's Jazz particulars! Did Fender change the wind of pickups along with the other design features from the mid 70's onwards? I ask as have always toyed with changing the pups on my 1973, but was unsure if this fell under manufacturer's 60's or 70's style winds.
[/quote]

From this useful site: [url="http://www.guitarhq.com/fender.html#specs"]http://www.guitarhq.com/fender.html#specs[/url]

[b]Pickups and Pickup Springs[/b][list]
[*]1950 to March 1964: all models had "black bottom" pickups and cast slug alnico magnets with rounded top edges. Pickups not dated. Pickup wire is usually a real rich cooper color. Pickups are dipped in hot wax to eliminate microphonics, and this wax is evident on the entire pickup. Also the pickup screw "springs" are made out of rubber surgical tubing cut into small 3/8" long pieces.
[*]March 1964 to late 1970's: most models had "gray bottom" pickups and cast slug alnico magnets. Gray bottom pickups would be the rule, but black bottom pickups were used from old stock as late as 1967. Starting in the early 1970's, the top edges of the magnets were no longer rounded. Most gray bottom pickup assemblies have at least one pickup with a hand written date. By the late 1960's this changed to an inked stamped date code, much like the date code used on the butt of the neck. Most gray bottom pickups have a deep burgundy colored pickup wire. Wax treament is no longer used in favor of a lacquer dip treatment, which is much harder to see. Pickup screw springs are now actually real cone-shaped springs instead of rubber surgical tubing. Click [url="http://guitarhq.com/fenddiff/gray_bottom_pu.jpg"]here[/url] for a picture of gray bottom pickups (1970s). Click [url="http://guitarhq.com/fenddiff/gray_bottom_pu_stamp.jpg"]here[/url] for a picture of a November 4, 1964 gray bottom pickup date stamp.
[/list]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1495695185' post='3305860']

I always thought they used Swanp ash what other kind of ash would they have used? Swan ash grows in the US
[/quote]

I believe they also used northern American ash, or "hard ash" as it's also known. Different species to swamp...Tends to be the heavier stuff, and also what they used for baseball bats as far as I understand!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have tried a bunch of 1970s Jazzes and the quality has ranged from stunning to stunningly poor. If you get a good one you are lucky though. I remember when I was younger you could pick up a 1970s Jazz for about £700.

I would imagine that we are only a few years away from 1980s Fenders becoming sought after as the prices of 1970s ones go higher and higher.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1495695185' post='3305860']

I always thought they used Swanp ash what other kind of ash would they have used? Swan ash grows in the US

I asked out of curiosity because I want to build one
[/quote]
Swamp ash is wood from ash trees that were growing in swampland. Due to the high amount of water, the wood develops holes in the grain that contained the water. When seasoned the water is removed and this becomes air-space, so the wood ends up being lighter in weight than normal ash.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1495695185' post='3305860']

I always thought they used Swanp ash what other kind of ash would they have used? Swan ash grows in the US

I asked out of curiosity because I want to build one
[/quote]

Just remembered someone posted this once
http://www.guitarplayer.com/miscellaneous/1139/all-about-tonewoods/14591

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1495634425' post='3305473']
Simple, back then basses weren't build by the accounting/marketing teams...
[/quote]

This rose-tinted glasses view is something I've hears about 70's Fenders before. A little of throwaway sentiment.

However, whilst I'm no Fender expert, I sm aware of, and I agree with, the consensus that the 70's is really when the bean counters got down to business at Fender and that comes with CBS ownership. Fender was by no the company it is today back then, either. It is apparent that CBS started cost-cutting and this was felt at many levels.

One of the results of this was a perception formed by many players that lives on to this day, and that is that CBS cut quality. This bore out into the used market, which until a couple of years ago didn't seem to give much of a toss for 70's basses but was deeply in love with the 60's product.

Perhaps the biggest problem I've found with the 70's basses is the inconsistency in the builds. Some play and sound great, but a large proportion don't. That effect is more evident in the 70's range than for any other Fender era. A lot of it, I think, has to do with the Ash bodies. It sounds a lot different to Alder and in a lot of cases, it seems like any old bit of wood was used, whether it was resonant or or not. If the luck of the draw determines it, you can end up with a bass that is a tonne-weight whilst sounding utterly dead abd flat.

The market for 60's instruments became so stratospherically inflater in recent years, no doubt bolstered by speculators and 'investors', that Joe Public has tried to rewrite history to make the 70's basses really desirable, and they are already becoming the next target of inflation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1495791345' post='3306585']
Perhaps the biggest problem I've found with the 70's basses is the inconsistency in the builds. Some play and sound great, but a large proportion don't. That effect is more evident in the 70's range than for any other Fender era. A lot of it, I think, has to do with the Ash bodies. It sounds a lot different to Alder and in a lot of cases, it seems like any old bit of wood was used, whether it was resonant or or not. If the luck of the draw determines it, you can end up with a bass that is a tonne-weight whilst sounding utterly dead abd flat.
[/quote]

This certainly fits in with my experience over the past few days, all the other 70s Fenders I tried for comparison sounded and felt like crap. Average at best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My heavy old 71 P was a dog so damn sick it could barely stay on its stand anymore. Over the board it sounded pretty lush but the open E string was so dead as to be inaudible, tried strings, neck bolts, bone nuts, bridges everything to bring it alive and figured that either the neck wood or body wood were causing some sort of cancellation...weird

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...