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Twigman

Tech riders - are they that hard to understand?

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Gigs coming up in Spain....lots of grief over backline


I like to take my own head to gigs.
It saves me learning unfamiliar amp controls and allows me to achieve a familiar sound fairly quickly.

It's a Puma 900

The tech rider asks specifically for:


A bass cabinet rated at a minimum of 900W at 4ohms or 500W at 8ohms




SO (after I rejected the idea of using the support band's kit) what does the Spanish promoter email me to say he has rented?

A 500W 4ohm cab....

I emailed back telling him that if it blows up - and it's likely to - I am not responsible and does he really want the bass cab to go pop in the middle of the gig?


HOW HARD CAN IT BE TO GET IT RIGHT?

Edited by Twigman

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[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1494798251' post='3298639']
Gigs coming up in Spain....lots of grief over backline


I like to take my own head to gigs.
It saves me learning unfamiliar amp controls and allows me to achieve a familiar sound fairly quickly.

It's a Puma 900

The tech rider asks specifically for:


A bass cabinet rated at a minimum of 900W at 4ohms or 500W at 8ohms




SO (after I rejected the idea of using the support band's kit) what does the Spanish promoter email me to say he has rented?

A 500W 4ohm cab....

I emailed back telling him that if it blows up - and it's likely to - I am not responsible and does he really want the bass cab to go pop in the middle of the gig?


HOW HARD CAN IT BE TO GET IT RIGHT?
[/quote]

Not hard, you wouldn't think. Although I would be amazed if your amp damages that cab. Just use your ears, you will hear a cab struggling long before any damage occurs.

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Could have been worse... A 4 Watt cab at 800 Ohms..?

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[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1494799248' post='3298648']
Could have been worse... A 4 Watt cab at 800 Ohms..?
[/quote]

good point

well made





Yes I know the 500W 4ohm cabinet will probably survive...but why should I have to have that worry?

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[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1494800205' post='3298655']


good point

well made





Yes I know the 500W 4ohm cabinet will probably survive...but why should I have to have that worry?
[/quote]

First world problems?

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[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1494798251' post='3298639']
...A 500W 4ohm cab....

I emailed back telling him that if it blows up - and it's likely to - I am not responsible and does he really want the bass cab to go pop in the middle of the gig?...
[/quote]

There could be a legal problem with the above statement in that you imply that you might use the cab in a way that will cause damage ("if it blows up - and it's likely to") whilst saying you are not responsible.

I don't think that will save you costs if there is damage. The cab will have a panel on the back with clearly printed limits of operation that the manufacturer has put there. It might even have an additional set of limitations imposed by the rental company. What ever agreement(s) you sign, the spec on the cab will be the first thing that is looked at in the event of a legal decision being made following an accident, for example.

Good luck with the gigs. I hope you can get something you feel secure with.

Edited by SpondonBassed

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In fairness to the promoter, you have specified "at least". With the amount of confusion there is over watts and impedance, even without a language barrier, the 500w 4ohm could be considered more than you requested in that it would potentially deliver more volume.

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[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1494829506' post='3298706']
I have to raise this point as it will get mentioned sooner or later. Unless it's a small enough gig that you won't be going through a PA, why bother taking your head in the first place?
[/quote]because i won't get a monitor and I'm a prima donna

I

Edited by Twigman

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[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1494829178' post='3298702']
In fairness to the promoter, you have specified "at least". With the amount of confusion there is over watts and impedance, even without a language barrier, the 500w 4ohm could be considered more than you requested in that it would potentially deliver more volume.
[/quote]

He's fluent in English.
He spent days moaning about the cost of renting a cab. and claimed to be unable to source one.
A 20 second google found a backline rental place in Barcelona
I linked him to exactly something suitable.
He rented something else.

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Fair enough, but that puts a very different perspective on your original post, and much more worthy of the moan!

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Unless the cab is [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]a 500W 4ohm cab single 12 or something, quit your whining. If you aren't using your own gear, the likelihood is that you are never going to get exactly what you want.[/font][/color]

[font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]A technical rider is always considered optional or best endeavours for a bassist. Turning up to a gig and having an amp that is capable of gigging at gig volumes is sometimes novelty in itself...[/color][/font]

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[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1494832427' post='3298733']
...A 20 second google found a backline rental place in Barcelona
I linked him to exactly something suitable.
He rented something else.
[/quote]

Sorted then? Good one.

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Surely if you're playing somewhere where you're going to risk damaging the cab, then you'll have PA support? Which kind of makes having your own amp and sound etc a little irrelevant, it'll down to the sound man.

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I did some gigs in Paris recently. I had no idea what amp to expect, other than a bass amp. It was fine in the end though. Really I guess it's in the promoter's interests for everything to sound and work as well as possible. Though I guess a little compromise is needed.

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yeah but what he got was cheaper :)

As Buzz Aldrin realised whilst sitting atop Apollo 11."every single part in this rocket ship went to the lowest bidder"

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I always use whatever they provide.If I can avoid hauling anything, I You might have control over your amp head. You never have complete control over the house sound.

Blue

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Yeah, I'm with Blue. I know it doesn't help the OP but while I'll prefer to bring my rig if it's practical, I can more or less duplicate the sound with some pre-amp/amp emulator pedals and I'm happy for the sound man to take a DI from there, and I'll happily play though any old piece of [email protected] on stage as that's not the sound that's being used out front. Sometimes I'll just DI and not bother with the amp at all. If it saves me carting two cabs and an SVT head around, so much the better...the sound won't be an absolute match, but it'll be close enough for anybody listening out front, and they genuinely don't care or notice if it's an actual SVT or a small box pretending to be one.

Different story if the bass isn't going through the PA and needs an amp, but again, I can use whatever amp they give me and sort the sound out with my bass eq and pedals.

Again, doesn't help the OP at all, and I completely agree that the promoter should have actually done their job properly (so remember this when they try and book you the next time) but a solution where this isn't an issue is worth keeping in mind.

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To avoid the issue you could ask for x2 8 ohm cabs. Asking for a 900w 4ohm cab makes it more difficult to source.

Also, you could put a demand for foldback monitor specifically for bass on your rider. Then you're covered no matter what.

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