Item Damaged by courier...Advice needed.

[xgsjx]

If they string it out, look for compensation to cover cab hire for the time that this was out of commission.

[PauBass]

I have just checked my home insurance and , unfortunately I do no have legal service cover

I have asked the courier company for a full report of the inspection and also sent them a detailed explanation, photos they already had them, of the parcel packaging and that it matched the criteria on their website. Still awaiting for a reply a day later...they are always so slow to reply!

We do have photos of the parcel, as it left my house and as it arrived to its destinatition, The damaged to the parcel wasn't obvious, the box held it together I guess thanks to the strong box, the multiple layers of bubble wrap and the cab padded cover, but it can still be seen that it had sustained a blow on the area of the damage, see photos below:
[URL=http://s105.photobucket.com/user/PauBass/media/Barefaced/IMG_3993_zpssrbrcqkp.jpg.html][IMG]http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m221/PauBass/Barefaced/IMG_3993_zpssrbrcqkp.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://s105.photobucket.com/user/PauBass/media/Barefaced/IMG_3995_zps67gjtkho.jpg.html][IMG]http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m221/PauBass/Barefaced/IMG_3995_zps67gjtkho.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

We have photos showing how the cab was packed and we have kept all packaging too.
I have also contacted the cab manufacturer and see if they can help and estimate the force needed to damaged the cab like this as well as to provide more details on the strength of the materials used.

Right now I have to decide if to go with Trading Standards or Small Claims Court but I'm not sure what the best option is going to be....I'm not even sure how they work!

[Marc S]

[quote name='Steve Browning' timestamp='1493124296' post='3285794']
I wonder what sort of packaging would be required to withstand the knock that did that to a piece of wood?
[/quote]

Maybe an additional wooden box?!
So sorry this has happened to you. This is why I hate sending musical instruments or equipment by post
It seems you take out the insurance etc, but then they don't want to cough up

Lets face it - that must have been one hell of a whack As has been suggested, it may have been a forklift
Some good advice on here, which is great, and just why BC is such a good forum

As others have suggested - stick to your guns, and let them know you're not going to take this lying down
Most of all though - best of luck with it, and let us know how you get on

[xgsjx]

[quote name='PauBass' timestamp='1493195561' post='3286316']
I have just checked my home insurance and , unfortunately I do no have legal service cover
[/quote]
It might be worth having a word with Citizens Advice Bureau.

[Musicman20]

I hate the way we pay blindly for insurance because we want to play it safe, then they don't pay up when we follow the rules. Disgusting practice.

I hope you manage to get it sorted.

Amazon delivered a new Gibson SG to me (limited colour run for Amazon and super awesome price) just in the Gibson box with Amazon packing labels. Absolutely immaculate when it arrived, even the outer box.

I've no idea how couriers get away with it. PURSUE IT! Keep ranting on Facebook etc.

[Musicman20]

I find it bizarre that the box seems to have only taken a small knock....it must have been blunt force.

[Jakester]

If you paid for additional insurance, then threaten a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, which is the body that deals with insurance complaints. Demand a copy of the policy wording and ask for a full explanation as to why it was declined.

Similarly, if you intend to pursue in the small claims court you need to be alleging either that you were missold the insurance and/or that the terms of the courier contract were unfair, as you paid for something which could not possibly have paid out in the event of damage.

TBH through up enough crap and some of it will stick. PM me if you need more info as IAAL.

[dmccombe7]

Citizens Advice might well pass you on to Trading Standards as in my area they are virtually same department.
Might as well go straight to Trading Standards.
They've always been very helpful for me over the years.

It might be worth you informing the courier that you will be taking this up with Trading Standards due to the unsatisfactory response and settlement of your claim.
The minute you make a case with Trading Standards it is registered as a complaint against that company. If they get enough complaints they automatically take action against the company.
It also shows up on all statistical forums as an official complaint. Most companies try to avoid official Trading Standards complaints when possible.
They might pay out at the very mention of Trading Standards.
I believe Trading Standards have the power to eventually take sufficient action against companies and in worst case scenario they can stop trading.

Dave

Edited April 26, 2017 by dmccombe7

[Ghost_Bass]

That's the port panel on a barefaced cab by the looks of it. I can say from experience that that is a weak spot on the cabs due to the lightweight plywood. I've had to ask the band members to stop lifting my cab by it's side using only the port side handle as it broke the glue and came loose. I had to glue the pannel back.

Having said that i think that i wouldn't take much force to do this damage, just an infortunate situation like the carrier stepping on the box to go over it and catching it in the edge and in the middle of two braces could be enough to break it as it's a weak spot.

In your case, you have pictures to prove the damage in the box, you have payed for insurance, go all the way up to threatning them with court as you're entitled to a refund for the damage. No package handled properly should show signs of exterior damage like that. It was either a big knock or somebody used your cab as a step.

Good Luck

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Steve Browning' timestamp='1493124296' post='3285794']
I wonder what sort of packaging would be required to withstand the knock that did that to a piece of wood?
[/quote]

I packed a Hiwatt 200 (ex-Slade) head for shipping to the USA a few years ago. It was in a new Hiwatt box made for that particular amp, was then bubble wrapped and put into a box about the size of a small coffin, with about a foot of polystyrene Cheezy Wotsits on all sides and a whole roll of gaffer tape to seal it. When it arrived the damage was - one smashed mains light!?! How the hell they managed that I don't know.

Similarly a one-time BCer I knew who shipped a Hiwatt 400 head (mint condition, original KT88s - rare as rockin horse doodah) to the USA, packed in a similar fashion. When it arrived the chassis was literally bent with some of the casing smashed.
Due to the way the (huge) mains transformer was bent on it's fixings it was deemed to have been dropped from a very great height in transit. The inertia of the heavy transformer when the package hit the ground bent the whole chassis.
I wouldn't be surprised if a similar thing had happened with the speaker(s) in the OP had done a similar thing which broke the cab casing.

[Crawford13]

I would start using https://www.resolver.co.uk and use this for all your communication with the company. It gives you good templates to use and companies tend to take complaints through this website a little more seriously.

[PauBass]

Thank you very much again for your help guys, I really, really appreciate it!

The person that received the cabinet has emailed me back this morning, after reconstructing how I packed the cab approximately, he confirms the corners on the cab, they had extra protection, had a minimum of 12 layers of bubble wrap, possibly even 14-16! Then add the padded cover and cardboard box...unbelievable!

I'm seeing the Citizens Advice Bureau on Friday and see what their advice on how best to proceed is, then I will go from there...but one thing is clear, I won't stop here : Trading Standards, Small Claim Court, Facebook posting, emails to company..... whatever it takes to overturn their decision and make them accept their fault, not mine!

[mentalextra]

Don't forget to post regular updates on this thread so we can all do what we do best and 'burn' them

[moooper]

Check out my thread on a broken cab http://basschat.co.uk/topic/282557-broken-cab-just-arrived/page__fromsearch__1 I'm going to small claims court early next month. Let me know if you need any help or advice

[machinehead]

[quote name='moooper' timestamp='1493229632' post='3286781']
Check out my thread on a broken cab [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/282557-broken-cab-just-arrived/page__fromsearch__1"]http://basschat.co.u...__fromsearch__1[/url] I'm going to small claims court early next month. Let me know if you need any help or advice
[/quote]

Just the type damage I advised the OP to check for in post #12 of this thread. If it was me I'd be opening up the cab to check for internal damage too.

Frank.

[PauBass]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1493219131' post='3286631']
Don't forget to post regular updates on this thread so we can all do what we do best and 'burn' them
[/quote]
Sure, I will keep posting updates here as they come in so you are all aware of the whole process.

[quote name='moooper' timestamp='1493229632' post='3286781']
Check out my thread on a broken cab [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/282557-broken-cab-just-arrived/page__fromsearch__1"]http://basschat.co.u...__fromsearch__1[/url] I'm going to small claims court early next month. Let me know if you need any help or advice
[/quote]

I had not seen your thread, thanks for the heads up!
I have sent you a PM

[timmo]

In my experience of forklift driving, and showing the photo to work mates, we are 100% convinced it has been caught by a fork on the forklift. It is the type of damage we see. A fork doesnT always go through packaging if there is resistence inside. The tips of the forks are slightly narrower at the tip, and looks exactly tje right size.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1493269946' post='3286970']
In my experience of forklift driving, and showing the photo to work mates, we are 100% convinced it has been caught by a fork on the forklift. It is the type of damage we see. A fork doesnT always go through packaging if there is resistence inside. The tips of the forks are slightly narrower at the tip, and looks exactly tje right size.
[/quote]

Absolutely brilliant and made my day. (In a good way of course)
The BC Forensic science Team investigative the serious and willful damage to this poor, almost deceased cab.
It doesn't get much better than this.
I'm fair impressed and amazed that it was passed around the workplace as back up and support.
Well done Timmo.
This is what makes BC the place to be.

I know this is a serious issue but i have to admit this post did have me chuckling at the length my BC friends will go to help a fellow BC'er.

Dave

[PauBass]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1493269946' post='3286970']
In my experience of forklift driving, and showing the photo to work mates, we are 100% convinced it has been caught by a fork on the forklift. It is the type of damage we see. A fork doesnT always go through packaging if there is resistence inside. The tips of the forks are slightly narrower at the tip, and looks exactly tje right size.
[/quote]

Thanks, this is vey helpful information! I will make sure to point this out too to the company.

[timmo]

[attachment=244221:20170428_023125.jpg]
I found a box to put the fork into. Obviously I can`t recreate it properly, as the box is just rolls of shrinkwrap with nothing in the corner. It wasn`t heavy either, so not lot of resistance that the speaker would have had. I think the damage looks similar

Edited April 28, 2017 by timmo

[xgsjx]

Well pointed out Timmo. Looking at Paubass' pic, it's a very similar line.

Ask UPS what should be used as packaging to protect agains forklift forks.

Edited April 28, 2017 by xgsjx

[PauBass]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1493360923' post='3287685']
[attachment=244221:20170428_023125.jpg]
I found a box to put the fork into. Obviously I can`t recreate it properly, as the box is just rolls of shrinkwrap with nothing in the corner. It wasn`t heavy either, so not lot of resistance that the speaker would have had. I think the damage looks similar
[/quote]

Sorry about the late reply, been away for a few days.
This is really helpful! I think it is quite clear what happened to mine after seeing those photos.

Is there any chance you can email me these photos, please?

Update:

- Courier company is ignoring many of my emails and fail to provide advice or clear instructions on what to do next to dispute the claim resolution.
- UPS won't deal with me directly as the shipper is ParcelHero but they were quick to contact me when I posted on their Facebook page. On the other hand ParcelHero accept no visitors posts on their Facebook but I did post a comment on one of their posts and they haven even bother deleting it or acknowledging.
- The cab maker has not replied to my email with advice on force needed or a few other questions.
- Visit to Citizens Advice Bureau was useless as I got seen by an old lady that did not have much idea and failed to give any advice, other that ask me to look at their website. I'm going back tomorrow, to a different town, with the hope to find someone a bit more helpful.

This is it for now....Thanks everyone for your help!

[ProfJames]

I have issued an online CCJ on three occasions and won each time, This is an online action via a government website and costs around £30. It issues a summons and places a CCJ on both the company address and the name of the person. They get a month to respond and then have to attend court. Frightens the sh*t out of the accused and CCJ actions bugger up their credit ratings.........................

https://www.firstreport.co.uk/Guide-to-County-Court-Judgments.aspx

[fleabag]

The trouble starts when you win, but they dont pay. Read the small print

[ProfJames]

But the CCJ remains until the debt is cleared