Little cabinets.

[obbm]

I used to play in a very loud blues/rock band using an Ashdown ABM500 head and 2 x Mini 4x8 Cabs. Rarely was there PA support and the only time I had a problem was playing outdoors because all the bass came out of the rear ports and disappeared. It made me vow never to have a rear-ported cab again, but that is probably a different discussion.

Later I moved onto a pair of Epifani 1x12s and then a pair of Aguilar SL112s. Never had a problem with tone or volume.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='obbm' timestamp='1493126405' post='3285830']
I used to play in a very loud blues/rock band using an Ashdown ABM500 head and 2 x Mini 4x8 Cabs. Rarely was there PA support and the only time I had a problem was playing outdoors because all the bass came out of the rear ports and disappeared. It made me vow never to have a rear-ported cab again, but that is probably a different discussion.

Later I moved onto a pair of Epifani 1x12s and then a pair of Aguilar SL112s. Never had a problem with tone or volume.
[/quote]

I seem to find the same with rear ports. Feels like a lot of the bottom end between the deepness and the heft gets lost, unless you get the right distance from a wall or something.
Can get plenty of deep though but I've had sound hollow in one space yet full and bouncy in another.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1493119438' post='3285722']
There's a spectacular amount of misunderstanding in this thread!!!


[/quote]

Hi Alex, I agree and I'm obviously as guilty as anyone, I thought you were singling out my comment that 80% of people would be fine with a decent 1x12 as that was the only quote in your previous post. I still think it's true that something like the Super Compact would be enough for 80% of bassists by the way but I'll defend that position later.

[Steve Browning]

I guess we hear as much with our eyes as we eat with them.

[Phil Starr]

Sorry Stevie I was just about to use the car analogy I don't think I can stop myself.....

Sure buying any 1litre car as Alex suggested is going to leave you short of power but going out and buying a 1.4 Golf is going to let you cruise the motorway at 70 in reasonable comfort, and carry four people when you want. It's a perfectly functional way of getting around for most of us. Of course other 1.4 litre petrol cars are available which will do service equally well, and a few people will genuinely need a bigger vehicle or perhaps 4 wheel drive or whatever. Equally some people just want something more interesting and stylish than a Golf. Volkswagen will tell you the Golf is the best in its class but in reality there are other cars which cost similar amounts that do some things better and others less well and it comes down to personal choice. Nobody seriously thinks that a new car nowadays isn't going to be fuel injected do they?

My position is that just as most of us (80%???) could get by with a mid priced family car most bassists could get by with a decent 1x12. That doesn't mean they should or that other choices wouldn't suit them better.

FWIW I thought NJ's original post was a perfectly sensible start to a discussion we've had a hundred times before.

[bassjim]

Well it is a Tuesday and we are all bored. Group hug. Soon be the weekend and I for one have a dep gig Friday I'm bricking it about and a gig on Saturday with a dep singer. Last thing on my mind is going to be my cabs I can tell you.

[GregBass]

I use a pair of Barefaced Big Baby 2s with a TC RH750. One cab sounded OK, but incorporating a second allowed me to get the sound I want at lower volumes. I play in a punk/post punk band that virtually never has PA reinforcement (we carry a vocal PA for pub gigs only), but volume is only an issue when the band are telling me to turn down. I usually have gain at 5 and master volume at 2, so I always have a ton of headroom too.

[Passinwind]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1493128608' post='3285856']
FWIW I thought NJ's original post was a perfectly sensible start to a discussion we've had a hundred times before.
[/quote]

Agreed, and my answer was absolutely given in that spirit.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1493123394' post='3285775'][list]
[*]Near total silence - 0 dB
[*]A whisper - 15 dB
[*]Normal conversation - 60 dB
[*]A lawnmower - 90 dB
[*]A car horn - 110 dB
[*]A rock concert or a jet engine - 120 dB
[*]A gunshot or firecracker - 140 dB
[/list]
Now they do.
[/quote]

Another meaningless statistic.

Are those figures average or peak level?

And do they take into account the duration of the sound?

[stevie]

Maybe you could work it out and let the rest of us know.

[stevie]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1493128608' post='3285856']
Sorry Stevie I was just about to use the car analogy I don't think I can stop myself.....
[/quote]

For goodness' sake, Phil, show some restraint.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Passinwind' timestamp='1493107675' post='3285575']
By never playing excessively loud rock music, for starters.
[/quote]

I have, and with small/light cabs. If you cant do this then you simply dont have the right gear or know how to use it properly.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1493119438' post='3285722']
3. My point about disagreeing with the statement that "80% of people would be fine with a single 12" comes from that fact that isn't [i]true unless you have a really really good 12" speaker[/i] and an amp that can push it hard. Go around telling most bassists they can gig with any 12" and they'll laugh at you because it isn't true.
[/quote]

At no point in this discussion has the assertion that most bassists could get by with [i]any[/i] 12 been made, rather than one need a good one, and yes of course you need an amp than fully exploit it and yes you need to know what your doing generally with EQ etc.

[NancyJohnson]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1493119438' post='3285722']
My final point is that the OP could gig with a Super Compact with a 500W amp powering it - it would be as loud as his current rig. He just doesn't know that because he hasn't tried it. But he's scared of it, he needs the safety blanket of a bigger rig. That's fine, lots of people are like that. But it's a shame when one's need for a visual safety blanket causes an apparent attack on those who are happily using smaller but equally loud rigs.
[/quote]

Alex
Over the last 25/30 years, I've used numerous combinations of cabinetry and yes, to a degree, I'd concur with your safety blanket comment and like several responders to this thread, I'm possibly long enough in the tooth to come from a time where [i]big is best[/i] was the norm and it wasn't uncommon to have rigs that contained 6x10, 8x10, 4x12, 2x15 enclosures (and the answer to your question is 'Yes, I have. All of them, plus combinations thereof.') In my time I've also run a tri-amp set up of 15s,10s and bright box (blame Doug Wimbush).

That said, the need for a visual safety blanket is of an irrelevance; most of all I want to be able to hear myself in rehearsal/live and I want my gear to survive the rigours of journey/load in and out/four bands using it in one evening. The only thing I'm scared of is having to go to the trouble and expense of repair/replacement in the event things go awry by curfew. Also from the front end, I'm not prepared to throw good money at gear just to prove a point (which takes us back to my [i]big is best[/i] comment above) and then sell on at a loss because I'm unhappy.

Last count, my band have a dozen gigs in the next three months, small rooms, big rooms. We're doing radio. We're doing Musicians Against Homelessness/Crisis gigs. We're recording. We're gigging in Italy. We'll also be rehearsing twice a week for this period. Many bass players will be using my gear. Guys come up to me after gigs and say they love my sound and I go, 'My signal path is simple, RBI, Poweramp and that Barefaced.' so your business is getting some exposure and hopefully I've generated some sales.

If you want to prove me wrong and steer me away from my safety blanket attitude, loan me something small to cover all these and we'll see how things go. I'll put everything else in my lockup. I'll probably be back to get a Super Twin at some stage, irrespective.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1493202790' post='3286405']I want my gear to survive the rigours of journey/load in and out/four bands using it in one evening. The only thing I'm scared of is having to go to the trouble and expense of repair/replacement in the event things go awry by curfew. Also from the front end, I'm not prepared to throw good money at gear just to prove a point (which takes us back to my [i]big is best[/i] comment above) and then sell on at a loss because I'm unhappy.[/quote]

And that makes total sense to me. If other bass players are using my gear I'd rather have a rig that never even comes close to its limits so that even the most moronic behaviour from gear-sharing-bassists won't risk damaging anything. Plus I'm not particularly bothered about my own rig being either small or light - if I was gigging at the moment I'd turn up with a Big Twin 2 for everything.

And if you have an amp that works with your larger cab but doesn't have enough power to push a smaller cab to the same loudness, then there's no reason to downsize unless you really want or need a smaller rig. That's why I'll recommend a Super Twin to one bassist but a Super Compact to another bassist whose tone/output requirements are the same but their amps are different.

I like big rigs!

But if you're a fan of big rigs, bear in mind that if you take two cabs, a 1x12" and the matching 2x12" or a 2x10" and the matching 4x10", there is only a 6dB difference in max loudness between the two. That 6dB could be the difference between being heard or sounding good, or it could just be 6dB of spare headroom. And if you've done much recording you'll know that 6dB isn't exactly a big deal with an instrument as dynamic as bass guitar.

Also, bear in mind that in the exact same band on the exact same gigs, one bassist could need a rig 6dB louder than the other because that one plays with greater dynamics, a bit more bottom end in their tone, likes a cleaner sound, likes less midrange in their sound, likes to be a bit louder in the mix, etc. I know that I usually need more output than other bassists in the same situation because I play with a lot of dynamics, tend to sit loud in the mix and sometimes want a ton of bottom end.

So before you judge a bassist for using what seems like an impossibly small rig, remember that they're a different musician with different needs. Sure, going from a 8x10" to a 1x10" is a big jump (we've had someone do that recently and I had to point out that maybe he needed another 1x10" when it didn't sound as big as he hoped!) but halving or doubling a rig isn't that much.

My thanks to anyone playing a Barefaced rig, however huge or tiny it is - and hopefully it makes you sound better than anything else!

[Happy Jack]

I have four different Barefaced cabs and I'm getting worried. How on earth can I come up with a consistent motor vehicle analogy that will neither break down under stress (or on the A312) nor attract The Wrath Of Stevie?

Christ! I'd almost rather get into another discussion about The Blessed St. Jeremy with a bunch of [i]Corbynistas [/i]on the Election thread ...

[Chienmortbb]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1493143431' post='3286038']


Another meaningless statistic.

Are those figures average or peak level?

And do they take into account the duration of the sound?
[/quote]Why is it meaningless?

Edited April 26, 2017 by Chienmortbb

[stevie]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1493209128' post='3286494']
I have four different Barefaced cabs and I'm getting worried. How on earth can I come up with a consistent motor vehicle analogy that will neither break down under stress (or on the A312) nor attract The Wrath Of Stevie?
[/quote]

Tell us about the time you drove all four of your cars at the same time, Jack! (See, car analogies really are rubbish!)

[Phil Starr]

That's not fair, you didn't tell us that bit.

If you're lending it to other bass players it can't be big enough.

[itsmedunc]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1493209128' post='3286494']
I have four different Barefaced cabs and I'm getting worried. How on earth can I come up with a consistent motor vehicle analogy that will neither break down under stress (or on the A312) nor attract The Wrath Of Stevie?

Christ! I'd almost rather get into another discussion about The Blessed St. Jeremy with a bunch of [i]Corbynistas [/i]on the Election thread ...
[/quote]

Honda's have a good track record I believe. The words of the breakdown guy who towed my Citroen back from Wales...

[Stylon Pilson]

I think that the important thing that we mustn't lose sight of here is that small cabs just don't have [i]heft[/i].

/me disappears off over the horizon, cackling with glee

S.P.

[Passinwind]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1493222213' post='3286684']
That's not fair, you didn't tell us that bit.

If you're lending it to other bass players it can't be big enough.
[/quote]

True that, but this thread isn't about Nancy's Johnson's needs and wants, it's about how the rest of us make it work with one small cab. Or at least the part I answered is.

[Ghost_Bass]

1. Teach the drummer and guitarrists to play in a civilized and respectfull volume;
2. HPF the bass (onstage) at around 70Hz;
3. Have all the band go through F.O.H.;

There! Can we close the thread now?

[NancyJohnson]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1493230503' post='3286792']
1. Teach the drummer and guitarrists to play in a civilized and respectfull volume;
2. HPF the bass (onstage) at around 70Hz;
3. Have all the band go through F.O.H.;

There! Can we close the thread now?
[/quote]

Wouldn't this be just dreamy?

[Delberthot]

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1492964710' post='3284448']


I understand going the DI route for gigs, but surely these little cabs have very little throw and sound quality has to suffer when you're up against a busy drummer.
[/quote]

My bass goes out front to the PA so I don't need a huge powerful cab or cabs like I used to. I find that the One10 has a pretty short throw so that I can have it at ear level as loud as I need but if I step 5 feet away from it, it isn't overpowering the rest of the stage which makes it perfect for me.

I stand right next to my drummer and I have both volumes at 3 with the active pad switch engaged - it's really loud!

If I went back to the kind of band I was in before with no pa support then I would definitely have big cabs again.