Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
NancyJohnson

Little cabinets.

Recommended Posts

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1493063275' post='3285356']
You've answered your own question. So I'm not sure what your point is.
[/quote]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1493063605' post='3285360']
The OP expressed a point of view and put it up for discussion. What's wrong with that? Seems fair enough to me.
[/quote]

NJ asked how users of 1x12 cabinets managed "You know who you are".. Those users are either playing in bands that don't need brain cell scorching volumes, or if they do, know how to get a great tone out of kit without the onstage volume onslaught. The kit is chosen for it's job, not how cool it looks?

To put it in to perspective, last year I depped with a band and the onstage volume was practically zero, yet the FOH, a modest PA pounded like a beast. Happy audience! Genuinely, a 1x12 cabinet would have drowned out the acoustic sounds on stage if it were indeed 'cranked'.

So maybe the point of view about 'how do you manage' is simply down to some bands still relying on lugging truck loads of backline gear round (and mostly unnecessarily*) when technology has allowed us great tones from smaller boxes. High quality PA is cheaper and more accessible and many bands are opting to get a great sound out to their audience through decent full range kit rather than making the backline do the work and all the troubles that can come with it. (too much volume and rubbish onstage mixes ensue)

*each to their own of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few factors at play I think. For one, not all cabinets are the same. A 1x10" can outperform a 2x10" if it has more than twice the sensitivity, or the excursion.

Second is tone. I know when I play my stingray fingerstyle and aim for a fat, studio sound then I'm going to need more amp then when I'm playing grindy punk with a precision and a pick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1493063605' post='3285360']
The OP expressed a point of view and put it up for discussion. What's wrong with that? Seems fair enough to me.
[/quote]

I didn't see any discussion being made just some belligerent comments. However OP did ask "how the hell do you manage?" but I feel this was some what rhetorical.


[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1493065260' post='3285383']


Are you on your period?
[/quote]

No. Are you?
Your opening post was deliberately provocative which I like to think wasn't actually trying to elicit some kind of angered response but it did nerk me somewhat. Respect goes two ways.

Constructive language designed to grow a healthy discussion would have been more like.
" I always wonder how or why people use small cabs, 1x12/1x10 for example. Playing in a loud band I feel I need a big rig behind me, sometimes just to keep up with a loud drummer. Anyone who regularly gigs a small cab care to chime in? "

Where as yours is very condescending and echos the label snobbery of having have a fender since that's a real bass.

Plenty of folks don't have the luxury of a car or van or have health implications let a lone maybe heavens forbid they don't ever need a fridge cause they'll always play on a cramped stage with full PA support so their amp is basically their stage monitor.

I think then what really ruffled my feathers was that you use what I would consider a "tiny" cab which you admittedly use for most situations.

Edited by Prime_BASS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've found that an efficient 1x12 is adequate in a 4 piece blues/rock outfit, fwiw, obviously not all cabs are the same but there's plenty that claim good efficiency nowadays (mine is similar to the basschat v1 Diy design)

If the cab starts to struggle (only happened a couple of times in 4 years) it invariably means the stage volume is too high, and in these circumstances audience members report that they can no longer hear the (normally not micd except kick) drums clearly.

If the drums are micd in a bigger venue you can just Di the bass to get some extra projection through the pa, so you still don't really need a huge pile of speakers - the stage sound should remain pretty constant regardless of venue size, the pa just gets bigger (which would include more monitoring on big stages, but I just make do in pub gigs by putting my cab near the drummer so he can hear it clearly).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1493074735' post='3285471']


I didn't see any discussion being made just some belligerent comments. However OP did ask "how the hell do you manage?" but I feel this was some what rhetorical.




No. Are you?
Your opening post was deliberately provocative which I like to think wasn't actually trying to elicit some kind of angered response but it did nerk me somewhat. Respect goes two ways.

Constructive language designed to grow a healthy discussion would have been more like.
" I always wonder how or why people use small cabs, 1x12/1x10 for example. Playing in a loud band I feel I need a big rig behind me, sometimes just to keep up with a loud drummer. Anyone who regularly gigs a small cab care to chime in? "

Where as yours is very condescending and echos the label snobbery of having have a fender since that's a real bass.

Plenty of folks don't have the luxury of a car or van or have health implications let a lone maybe heavens forbid they don't ever need a fridge cause they'll always play on a cramped stage with full PA support so their amp is basically their stage monitor.

I think then what really ruffled my feathers was that you use what I would consider a "tiny" cab which you admittedly use for most situations.
[/quote]

You need to seek help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1493102851' post='3285527']


You need to seek help.
[/quote]

NJ, not cool. Your replies haven't really been in the spirit of the BC community. P_B did only ask what your point was after all. How about expanding on your OP rather than derogatory comments? It could be a really interesting discussion if it were articulate and balanced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1492964710' post='3284448']
I always seem to break a little smile when I see posts showing 'my gig rig tonight', where there's a little class-D head stop of a tiny Barefaced Compact (or similar). I suppose after years of doing this, I just feel more comfortable with something big behind me.

All you guys who just use tiny cabinets (1x10 or 1x12), yes, you know who you are, how the hell do you manage?

[/quote]
By never playing excessively loud rock music, for starters. Next question?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1493106660' post='3285565']
NJ, not cool. Your replies haven't really been in the spirit of the BC community. P_B did only ask what your point was after all. How about expanding on your OP rather than derogatory comments? It could be a really interesting discussion if it were articulate and balanced.
[/quote]

I posed a simple question about how bass players manage with small enclosures. This was largely prompted by the plethora of photos littering my Facebook timeline and recent incidents with bands playing under us ignoring the [i]belt and braces[/i] emails despatched by promoters, turning up with inadequate gear for purpose and then meekly asking whether they can use my gear. I'm not an imbecile and I know all about the potential pitfalls of using the wrong gear. I simply asked how people manage.

After some science from Phil, this pops up from Mr Prime-BASS:
[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1493063275' post='3285356']
You've answered your own question. So I'm not sure what your point is.
[/quote]

To which I answered:
[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1493065260' post='3285383']
Are you on your period?
[/quote]

Then this:
[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1493074735' post='3285471']
No. Are you?
Your opening post was deliberately provocative which I like to think wasn't actually trying to elicit some kind of angered response but it did nerk me somewhat. Respect goes two ways.

Constructive language designed to grow a healthy discussion would have been more like.
" I always wonder how or why people use small cabs, 1x12/1x10 for example. Playing in a loud band I feel I need a big rig behind me, sometimes just to keep up with a loud drummer. Anyone who regularly gigs a small cab care to chime in? "

Where as yours is very condescending and echos the label snobbery of having have a fender since that's a real bass.

Plenty of folks don't have the luxury of a car or van or have health implications let a lone maybe heavens forbid they don't ever need a fridge cause they'll always play on a cramped stage with full PA support so their amp is basically their stage monitor.

I think then what really ruffled my feathers was that you use what I would consider a "tiny" cab which you admittedly use for most situations.
[/quote]

Now then, I'm being told my original post is 'deliberately provocative' and that I was trying to 'elicit some kind of angered response'. Also, I should have delivered the original post in a different format and that it was condescending with echos of snobbery (sorry, don't own a Fender). Incidentally, if someone is going to pick me up grammatically, they need to proof what they're posting to make sure it reads correctly.

The next paragraph covers car ownership (which isn't my problem to be honest, but hey, if you don't drive, I'm not going to be your taxi service), health implications (fair enough/valid point), cramped stages and using backline as monitors (doesn't everyone, to a degree?). In closing, there's a little dig that my aforementioned Barefaced is what the the responder considers to be a tiny cab (which let's face it, carries a degree of snobbery that he alluded to earlier in the post).

Sometimes, people just misinterpret and overanalyse things a little too much. What do you want from me? To fawn over someone's replies and go, 'Oh yes, please forgive me, I was totally in the wrong from the outset!'? Come on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My main band is moderately loud (drums, keys, guitar, bass), and I dep in bands that have either 2 x guitar or occasionally guitar + keys, none of which are super loud. I’ve done most of my gigs in the last couple of years with a 1x12. How do I manage:
[font=Symbol]· [/font]99% of the time my rig is onstage monitoring only
[font=Symbol]· [/font]I work hard on my backing vox, so I need my bass to be ‘in the mix’ rather than overpowering
[font=Symbol]· [/font]I roll off quite a bit of bottom end on my amp which aids clarity onstage (and probably helps the amp)
[font=Symbol]· [/font]Don’t need the comfort blanket of a ‘big rig’
[font=Symbol]· [/font]I’m often singing at the front and side of the stage area, so can hear bass from FOH also
Incidentally I recently did a gig with my 1x12 cab without PA support, and I toasted the speaker! It really does make a difference having the PA take the strain. When my bonus comes in later in the year I will be looking for a similar sized cab (retro TWO10?) for just a bit more ‘poke’ onstage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[i][color=#ff0000]Please keep the conversation civil, folks, and we can keep this thread open. Any personal grievances please deal with privately as opposed to the public forum. [/color][/i]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use a big cabinet because I use a lot of low/sub frequencies and want the headroom.

TBH it's only really at rehearsal where I need this - at gigs any amp will do as the work is done by the PA/monitors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1493110625' post='3285606']

Sometimes, people just misinterpret and overanalyse things a little too much. .... Come on.
[/quote]

They really don't in this thread. You're coming over quite clear. I'll offer my thoughts elsewhere, so case closed for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use my rig to get the sound I want onstage, that's how I roll.
By compromising too much on reducing bottom end or not having enough clean headroom then I
may as well go down the IEM route really. I honestly don't believe one 4x10 to be excessive.
I rarely have the PA engineer tell me to turn down / reduce the bottom end etc - if he does then I'll
work with him to find a compromise, but usually he has enough leeway to balance the FOH sound.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a couple of jams/rehearsals with Happy Jack and his BF One10. It sounded great, and pretty massive to me.

EDIT: And so did Discreet's BF 2x10.

Edited by paul h

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something to consider is the size and noise restraints of the venue. Or lack of in some cases where its cool, even encouraged, to turn it up as loud as. May even be part of the vibe. Not my cup of tea but for those who want to I guess a small one cab set up would be a disaster. I think in these situations the OP would be right in wondering what any one is doing showing up in these circumstances with a small cab. Also IMO plain physics comes into play and no matter what it says on paper about the new tech behind the small cab,the room dynamics and volume that is a result of it, ie high ceiling, stone floor and walls ect will inevitably help put the best theories to the test.

Likewise I would wonder how anyone would cope turning up with a large cab/s in some of the venues I play in. You wouldn't be able to turn it up to 1 and a half on the volume without complaints yet not be able to hear your self very well due to sound projection of the bigger cab.

Horses for courses..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back in the day we all used big cabs because we had no other other choice. I played loud and 412's and 215's was all you could buy that would fill the room.

I now use "little" cabs because some clever guys decided to build cabs that sound great and loud in small and light formats. These small cabs are as loud as bigger cabs (mine sound better), and will go even louder if you use several of them. In very loud bands I used to run a 610 which was replaced by a 3 112 stack of fantastic Berg cabs, which changed into 2 "super" 112's. My current 2 112's are louder than the 3 112's which were louder than any 410 I've owned and even louder than my 610. Did I say they also sound better?

So small cabs can be used in any playing situation. You might need a couple of them and the budget will have to be bigger but they [i]will[/i] work. If your experience is limited to "older" cabs then all of this won't appear logical. To the guys who believe that you need big cabs to cut through or 15's for "the low end", believe me . . . things have changed. . . . a lot.

You can buy big cabs if you want, but now you don't have to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1493035368' post='3284982']
That's a surprise Alex, since the cab he mentioned as 'how the hell do you cope' was one of yours!

I was really addressing the OP's post and by saying 'decent single 12' I thought I'd made it clear I was talking about the Barefaced mentioned and a lot of others that utilise the best of modern driver design to enable us to go out with much reduced kit in terms of weight and speaker acreage.

I was specifically referring to your single 12's because the OP referred to them and saying that the claims made for your speakers are perfectly reasonable in terms of the technology. There's no magic just good use of technology. In saying you 'completely disagree' I assume you are telling everyone that a single Barefaced 12 isn't enough to keep up with the band for 80% of bassists. Is that what you are saying?
[/quote]

There's a spectacular amount of misunderstanding in this thread!!!

So I'll try to clear things up:

1. The OP's post was incorrect to start with. It asks "how the hell do you gig with a 10" or 12" and then refers to photos of a tiny rig with a Barefaced Compact. That isn't a tiny rig. A Barefaced Compact is a 1x15" cab which is bigger than many 2x10" cabs and more efficient than many 4x10" cabs. So we've really got off to a great start there... ;-)

2. The OP is usually using a single 15" cab (yes it has a midrange driver too but that doesn't make it any louder) for his gigs. That cab is no louder than the cab he referred to as being too small in his post. Aaaarghhhh!!!

3. My point about disagreeing with the statement that "80% of people would be fine with a single 12" comes from that fact that isn't true unless you have a really really good 12" speaker and an amp that can push it hard. Go around telling most bassists they can gig with any 12" and they'll laugh at you because it isn't true.

4. Basically it comes down to this one thing - grouping speakers and judging their output or tone by nominal diameter is a really bad idea. For bass players you'd be better off grouping them by volume displacement (cone area x excursion) and the product of sensivity and thermal power handling (efficiency x wattage - which could also be considered the product of three things, cone area, magnet strength and voice coil size).

The problem is that the only thing you SEE with a cab is the size of the speaker. The things that really matter are hidden.

So maybe a better analogy is rating how fast cars are based on what colour they are. "How the hell can you win that race in a blue car? I couldn't imagine trying to go that fast without being in a red car!"

My final point is that the OP could gig with a Super Compact with a 500W amp powering it - it would be as loud as his current rig. He just doesn't know that because he hasn't tried it. But he's scared of it, he needs the safety blanket of a bigger rig. That's fine, lots of people are like that. But it's a shame when one's need for a visual safety blanket causes an apparent attack on those who are happily using smaller but equally loud rigs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use an Ashdown Mibass 2.0 1x10 combo. It pushes 400w. We always have PA support and so it's only needed as a monitor. We played on Saturday at a venue that turned out to only have PA tops and no facilities for bass, drums or guitars! We had no choice but to get on with it. The place was packed with around 250 folk. I was more than worried that the bass would be lost. The little bass combo greatly surprised me and did it's job admirably. No problems on stage and absolutely none out front. It was on about half volume. Personally, for me, I don't think there's any need for a huge setup anymore and will stick with the 1x10. Well, until I get Barefaced GAS again! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could we please dispense with the stupid and patronising car analogies? Thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1493122324' post='3285755']
Could we please dispense with the stupid and patronising car analogies? Thank you!
[/quote]

Can you suggest some better ones, considering that 99.9% of musicians have no understanding of what a decibel is?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[list]
[*]Near total silence - 0 dB
[*]A whisper - 15 dB
[*]Normal conversation - 60 dB
[*]A lawnmower - 90 dB
[*]A car horn - 110 dB
[*]A rock concert or a jet engine - 120 dB
[*]A gunshot or firecracker - 140 dB
[/list]
Now they do. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1493122418' post='3285757']


Can you suggest some better ones, considering that 99.9% of musicians have no understanding of what a decibel is?
[/quote]

Isn't she an American actress that looks a bit like Katy Perry?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1493122418' post='3285757']
Can you suggest some better ones, considering that 99.9% of musicians have no understanding of what a decibel is?
[/quote]
There's musicians round these parts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...