If you could only choose one octave pedal

[Quatschmacher]

12 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

As of tomorrow I’ll have 5 octavers! I’ve temporarily got down to 6 filters, at least until Friday!

Annoyingly I’m ill and in bed today and the Subterranea and Manta are sitting on my desk at work having been delivered this morning. (I need to try and get out to the post office at some point to post the MXR BEF I sold.)

Edited November 20, 2017 by Quatschmacher

[Quatschmacher]

Just got the Subterranea today and it is very OC2-like but with a filter than can be opened right up to be way buzzier than even the Octabvre MKII can get. And the two waveform voices are so cool. It plays really tightly down to A on the E string, after that it’s patchy. The only down side is that it is ridiculously sensitive to even the slightest vibration so it’s a bit noisy. It could do with a gate on it. I’m very curious about the new one he’s making. (Taylor emailed back today saying he probably won’t be putting a gate on that one either but is making a new gated fuzz.)

[Al Krow]

Managed to bag a (hopefully mint) EHX Pitchfork from fleabay yesterday...look forward to putting it through its paces later this week when it arrives. 

[bassmayhem]

COG T-70!

[radiophonic]

On 26/11/2017 at 10:05, Al Krow said:

Managed to bag a (hopefully mint) EHX Pitchfork from fleabay yesterday...look forward to putting it through its paces later this week when it arrives. 

I look forward to your comments on this one, especially if you use an expression pedal. Against your advice elsewhere, I've scored up a S/H Boss Harmonist from ebay, on the grounds that I'd need a Picthfork and a Digitech Ricochet to cover the functionality.  The price was right, so I'll recover the cost if the tracking isn't adequate, but it's mostly intended for weirdness and I have a Sub n Up for straight octave up/down operations.  

Edited November 27, 2017 by radiophonic

[Quatschmacher]

20 hours ago, bassmayhem said:

COG T-70!

I’d like to try one. I like the fact that each of the three channels has its own dedicated filter knob so it is possible to dial in 3 very distinct sounds.  

[Al Krow]

On 27/11/2017 at 14:46, radiophonic said:

I look forward to your comments on this one, especially if you use an expression pedal. Against your advice elsewhere, I've scored up a S/H Boss Harmonist from ebay, on the grounds that I'd need a Picthfork and a Digitech Ricochet to cover the functionality.  The price was right, so I'll recover the cost if the tracking isn't adequate, but it's mostly intended for weirdness and I have a Sub n Up for straight octave up/down operations.  

EHX Pitchfork - short review

Pitchfork arrived and my initial reaction is positive.

It tracks well, down to the open E without glitching. Result!

Minimal latency for a digital pedal: perhaps a touch worse than the TC Sub n U in monophonic mode in that regard - but the EHX doesn't glitch like a trooper below an Ab like the SnU does when the SnU is on monophonic setting. Latency is slightly more noticeable on octave up than octave down, but I think that is just down to octave up being easier to discern aurally. However there is a discernible difference in tracking latency as compared to the sure footed 'vice like grip' of my analogue COG T16 which is still the most authentic and enjoyable sub octave down that I've yet found. The COG and other analogue pedals don't provide an octave up and the COG does start to glitch below an A (on the low E string). So swings and roundabouts, I guess!

I like the 'true' clean blend the EHX offers, and I also like (by digital pedal standards) the 'authentic' non-synthy octave down (I'll get all the synth sound I want from my dedicated filter pedals). The 50% blended clean plus octave down is just a lovely, rich, full bass line and will likely be my main setting for the pedal. 

The ability to adjust settings on the fly trumps this over the SnU for me as a 'live use' pedal. It doesn't have the granularity of interval adjustment  and wider functionality that the Boss PS-6 offers or the degree of fun pitch shift on the PS-6, but the pitch shift is still very usable on the EHX. The Boss was also built very solidly - as Boss pedals so often are. But I just couldn't get around the noticeable latency on the Boss where the octave up, in particular, felt like two separate notes; which is why I moved it on. Conceptually the PS-6 is a great pedal (and I can understand why a recording pro guitarist took it off my hands). If Boss manage to address the latency issue on a PS-7 model I would definitely get one.

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by Al Krow

[radiophonic]

@Al Krow Well the Harmonist showed up.  I've got admit I was a bit wary after your own experiences with tracking and latency, but I'm so far having no issues. I'll take it to practice later today, but definitely so-far-so good. The baked in Octaver (-1) sound is absolutely fine for my purposes and the wobble that various people have commended on (youtube) is only on the Shifter mode, so you can get a stable octave down in the Harmoniser mode. In any case, my toneprint on the SNU has vibrato added by choice and I actually like the wobble option. In effect I have a basic octaver + something a bit like my toneprint, which is a score for me. I think the -1 is maybe tighter and dryer than the SNU - I haven't really compared them fairly, but the SNU sounds a bit 'bigger' if you get my drift. Probably down to the EQing of the octave (which of course is fixed on the PS-6). Neither mode has given me any tracking issues when used as an octaver, although I've had a few glitches with some of the other harmonies when sliding a semitone. In fact I've had better luck with the tracking on this than with the Sub N Up (and I know this is weird, because everyone really rates the SNU's tracking). It will even track fine with a distortion pedal in front of it and another octaver.   No glitching. This is mostly just octaves though, so more demanding shifts might glitch out. Conversely, the SNU seems to glitch out low on the A string, as soon as my strings get a bit dead. I agree that some of the harmonies are a bit quiet on lower notes but I'm not noticing any big latency problems. However - and this is the big caveat - I don't play in a band with a kit drummer - so no kick / snare drum and no cymbals. This dramatically changes the demands placed on my sound.  I jammed with a couple of guys last week - basic trio format - and I was suddenly a aware of lot more aware of the latency on the SNU. It's possible that there are issues with either pedal that I'm simply not picking up because of the band context.  Anyway, as it stands, I'm not panning on dumping the SNU but if one pedal had to leave my board that would be it. Side note, I'm loving the sound of the harmoniser mode into a Phase 90 and a little tape delay. The short version is that (as always) YMMV!

 

Edited December 2, 2017 by radiophonic

[prowla]

I tried several octave pedals (MXR, Boss, and one or two others) down Denmark Street a few years back and I found that the Aguilar Octamizer was the best; it had the best "feel" and kept the character of the original note (it must've sounded good, because other folks in the shop complimented me on my playing!).

However, it does struggle with tracking low notes and the tonal character of my Ric gives it a hard time.

I recently bought an EH Synth 9 from someone (which is a fun pedal) and they were also selling an EH POG; though I didn't buy that, I think it is the best octave pedal I have tried.

[Al Krow]

@prowla Yes there's a lot of love for the Aggie - it's still @CameronJ's goto octave pedal, despite him having tried out pretty much ALL of them . It isn't great at tracking low, I completely agree (in fact it's one of the worst for low tracking). Why did you think the POG was so good, various folk (e.g. @1976fenderhead) have abandoned their POGs, having lived with them for a while, in favour of the EHX Pitchfork due to significantly smaller latency (i.e. double note warble) of the latter.

@radiophonic thanks for sharing that and it's always brilliant when a bit of kit exceeds (rather than doesn't meet) expectations, right?  Your SnU comments are interesting. I wonder if you could improve via the TonePrint editor to improve? Certainly @dood seems to have come up with a 'magic best of all worlds' (low tracking and minimal latency) which he just needs to bottle up and get TC to make available and pay him a commission!

Analogue vs digital

What I would say (perhaps cheekily) is don't play the Harmonist side by side with a quality analogue octaver (e.g. the COG T16, Aggie Octamizer or the MXR BOD). I find that even the lowest latency digital pedals (although to be fair I've never got hold of one of the really high end / expensive ones) just come up short against the analogue ones for 'tightness' of tracking (i.e. lack of latency warble).

So even though my Pitchfork will track really low, all the way down to an open E string (which is a massive tick in my books), when I A/B with my COG the tightness of the clean octave down of the COG means that wins the day for me even though it only tracks down to the A string. So it's the COG that is making its way onto my gigging mini board and the Pitchfork will be more for home use. The MXR BOD (and I think @krispn has his up for sale at a good price in the FS) seems to have the best combination of analogue tightness (minimal latency) plus lowest tracking of an analogue pedal (down to an F#). It's a bit too synthy for me on the sub octave but that is exactly the sound a lot of folk are after.

I think final point worth adding is that the latency is more of an issue where, like me, you're using a (in my case 50%) clean blend. The clean blend octave down to fatten up my bass line is by far my favourite setting and it works really well with certain drive pedals (in particular my Two Notes le Bass) to produce a gorgeous rich drive. If you are going for a completely wet sub octave or octave up then the latency point pretty much disappears - and the digital pedals could win the day. And actually without overlaying dirt pedal the very slight latency on the Pitchfork does make for pretty good 'old skool' POG sound, which I'm coming on to.

So I guess horses for courses, as ever, right?

 

Edited December 2, 2017 by Al Krow

[radiophonic]

@Al Krow TBS, I treat the Harmonist as a multi-effect and I'd expect it to be compromised compared to a really decent analog pedal. I got it for the portamento functions really and getting an Octaver out of the deal is just a bonus. What it's done though, is make me a bit less satisfied with the SNU.  I'd expected the differences in tracking and latency to be more pronounced, but the Boss seems to perform pretty well. I think Boss on the whole get a bit of an unfair rep, purely because they aren't sexy and boutique, but Roland do know what they are doing. My real decision now is whether to replace the SNU with something dedicated and analog or try and wring some superior tracking out of it. Right now it falls between two stools. I'd probably be looking at MXR (I've got the BCD and I did have the Envelope Filter and I think both are excellent).

[Al Krow]

7 minutes ago, radiophonic said:

@Al Krow TBS, I treat the Harmonist as a multi-effect and I'd expect it to be compromised compared to a really decent analog pedal. I got it for the portamento functions really and getting an Octaver out of the deal is just a bonus. What it's done though, is make me a bit less satisfied with the SNU.  I'd expected the differences in tracking and latency to be more pronounced, but the Boss seems to perform pretty well. I think Boss on the whole get a bit of an unfair rep, purely because they aren't sexy and boutique, but Roland do know what they are doing. My real decision now is whether to replace the SNU with something dedicated and analog or try and wring some superior tracking out of it. Right now it falls between two stools. I'd probably be looking at MXR (I've got the BCD and I did have the Envelope Filter and I think both are excellent).

I guess with the SnU it's a case of seeing if you can tweak it - how do you find the TonePrint as an editor? Kinda need @dood to share his 'magic'! IMHO you could do FAR worse than the MXR BOD. A LOT of love for it elsewhere on this thread. I played through one the other day and loved both the tightness of its tracking and just how low it can track without glitching. If you're interested, I'd snap @krispn's up whilst it is still going - he's a completely great guy to deal with btw.

[Dood]

33 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I guess with the SnU it's a case of seeing if you can tweak it - how do you find the TonePrint as an editor? Kinda need @dood to share his 'magic'! IMHO you could do FAR worse than the MXR BOD. A LOT of love for it elsewhere on this thread. I played through one the other day and loved both the tightness of its tracking and just how low it can track without glitching. If you're interested, I'd snap @krispn's up whilst it is still going - he's a completely great guy to deal with btw.

Hi, sorry for the slow response, been so busy in the studio, but I will do my best to reply properly later. Apologies chap.

[radiophonic]

@Al Krow The BOD is tempting, but this close to Christmas and having just nabbed the Harmonist... domestic strife that way lies. I really need to reduce the number of pedals on my board! Unfortunately, they all get used in the set.... In fact it;'s got to the point where the Tuner is the least essential pedal!

[dannybuoy]

If this one is any good for £58 then we may have a contender!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOtTEvqu06g

Edited December 2, 2017 by dannybuoy

[lee650]

I'll be looking for another octave in the new year! and ive my eye on the MXR BOD! how is it for really clean octave sounds? I've read it's quote gritty, which I don't need as my T65 has all the grit in need.

[CameronJ]

1 hour ago, dannybuoy said:

If this one is any good for £58 then we may have a contender!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOtTEvqu06g

Sounds very interesting! 

 

Edit: especially for £58!! I may have to invest.

Edited December 2, 2017 by CameronJ

[dannybuoy]

Take one for the team and let us know how it compares to the more expensive competition!

[Al Krow]

18 hours ago, lee650 said:

I'll be looking for another octave in the new year! and ive my eye on the MXR BOD! how is it for really clean octave sounds? I've read it's quote gritty, which I don't need as my T65 has all the grit in need.

Hi Lee - check the attached the clip out, I think it does a pretty good job of demonstrating the features, including the clean octave sound, of the MXR. I'd say the MXR is a touch more 'synthy' than the COG T16 (which is also cleaner and less gritty than the T65 due to the lack  of 'up' on the T16). However the MXR has to rank in my current top 3 analogue octave pedals (alongside the COG T16 and the Aggie Octamizer), given its lack of latency and ability to out do just about every other analogue in how low it will track without glitching (when Cam, Q and I A/B'd at Wunjos the MXR was going head to head with the TC SnU in how low it could track). I suspect that if you get the MXR your T65 may find itself in the FS section  

 

[prowla]

@Al Krow

The POG (the full-sized one) seemed to be more stable to me and it also does an octave up.

However, I would say that the sounds were more like it generated them rather than it modified the input signal.

[Al Krow]

20 hours ago, dannybuoy said:

If this one is any good for £58 then we may have a contender!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOtTEvqu06g

An analogue pedal that does both sub octave and octave up?! I was 'reliably informed' by Tom at COG that analogue pedals couldn't do octave up, so I'm intrigued / impressed if this can!

As ever, (i) tightness of tracking / latency (ii) how low it will track (iii) how in your face the glitching is when it ceases to track and (iv) what its synth tone sounds like are going to be key. Can they really deliver well on all of this for £58?! Having said that in the dirt space the TC Mojomojo does a pretty good job in the dirt space at just £47 (ok so that's not the original price, which was a fair bit higher, but the current retail price).

So @CameronJ and @dannybuoy which of the three of us is going to take one for the team? Having very recently got a EHX Pitchfork (my review posted a little earlier in this thread) a HGBM dirt and just traded up a bass and possibly about to get an amp head this weekend, I think I'm allowed to be 'excused'?  Given that DB is Mr Dirt and Q has become Mr Filter mark II (alongside his predecessor, MFm I, Bo0tsy) and that octaves are very much your thing Cam...

Edited December 3, 2017 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

2 minutes ago, prowla said:

@Al Krow

The POG (the full-sized one) seemed to be more stable to me and it also does an octave up.

However, I would say that the sounds were more like it generated them rather than it modified the input signal.

I know what you mean about not being authentic sounding - that kinda sums up another key feature of the analogue vs digital debate with analogue pedals generally regarded as being better than their digital counterparts for providing an authentic bass sound.

Have to admit I did briefly consider getting a POG 2 pedal, but the fact that it is literally double the price of a Pitchfork (both new and second hand) was quite a big jump, particularly as I'm not sure how much I'll be using the octave up.

[dannybuoy]

Analog octave up is possible but it is more of an octave up fuzz effect, just like the COG T65, Pearl Octaver, Foxrox Octron, etc. Useful for synth tones though!

[Quatschmacher]

21 hours ago, lee650 said:

I'll be looking for another octave in the new year! and ive my eye on the MXR BOD! how is it for really clean octave sounds? I've read it's quote gritty, which I don't need as my T65 has all the grit in need.

Seriously just get one already, there are plenty in the for-sale section. ?

I actually thought the T-16 sounded more synth-like, and by that I mean buzzy. That’s because you can open its filter right up. Even with the filter open it is very fat. It also gets way dubbier as closing the filter cuts off all the high end.

By comparison, the MXR has two fixed voices, each with its own volume knob. The “growl” knob on its own it quite OC-2-like but thin as doesn’t have the full bottom end. You need to blend in some of the “girth” to achieve that. You need to strike a balance as adding “girth” seems to mask some of the buzzy character.

Think the MXR really shines when you blend in clean signal and being able to use the mid boost makes a big difference (and I haven’t even tried flipping it to the other frequency or adjusting the gain).

You will be pushed to find an analogue octave pedal that plays as tightly and tracks as well as this.

What do you mean by “clean octave”? Are you describing the character of just the sub signal? Do you mean something like “devoid of buzzy high-end overtones”? Do you Class the T-16 with the tone rolled off quite far “clean octave”?

[prowla]

7 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I know what you mean about not being authentic sounding - that kinda sums up another key feature of the analogue vs digital debate with analogue pedals generally regarded as being better than their digital counterparts for providing an authentic bass sound.

Have to admit I did briefly consider getting a POG 2 pedal, but the fact that it is literally double the price of a Pitchfork (both new and second hand) was quite a big jump, particularly as I'm not sure how much I'll be using the octave up.

I think the POG plays polyphonic too (though I could be wrong).

I had a chat with the Aguilar folks at the London Bass Show (Olympia) and they said the Octamizer liked to be first in the effects chain (but I think most makers probably say that!). I also tried making a passive tone control and putting that in before it (just to tone down the harmonics), but it didn't do much; I may revisit that at ome point.