andy67 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 (edited) does anyone feel the same about this private bidding and private user id nonsense that eBay has allowed? I used to be able to decide who was real bidders and who were cheating but now, me personally, dont get involved with private bidding...you could tell by geography and by newbies who was up to the tricks...not now though and I feel that real bidders are getting fleeced to the point of being ripped off! I was looking at a 80's Squier bullet bass tonight and was considering bidding when i noticed the id privacy...when I checked the listing bids, it looked like there was stuff going on, wasn't sure though and I quit - it jumped from £60 - £150 in a space of seconds by bidder nos 7 or 9 cant recall, but they ended up pushing the price but not winning just left it in what you could call a suitable place for the seller! I think this affects us all as we most likely use ebay to sell our equipment.. thoughts please! ta andy Edited July 15, 2007 by andy67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I don't like the private bidder auctions, at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 MB1. If you think it looks suspicious, it usually is on Ebay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 I can see the pros and cons of these private auctions. As you say it's harder to spot the shill bidding but you can still tell to some degree and at the end of the day you only bid what you think it is worth. On the other side there's nothing worse than listing something and having other eBayers contact your potential buyers and luring them away with identical items, it happens all to regularly. However, I agree that eBay is going down the pan and they are a bunch of money grabbing bar-stewards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Have to say I'm disappointed by them as well. They've got a tricky job on their hands trying to maintain profit while coping with what is an obvious downturn in the quality and value of items on offer. I think the site is now mostly just a clearing house and while the listing fee is still fairly reasonable, their final value fees have become ludicrous. I was charged £2 for listing my Modulus which isn't bad at all, but had it sold I would have been charged £30 as a final value fee! No wonder mostly cheap stuff gets listed these days. As for Paypal, they spout on about reassurance and providing online security, but if the seller hasn't registered a credit card with paypal and spends your money as soon as he gets it then you're still screwed. Paypal will make all sorts of promises about getting the money fromt he seller next time he uses the account but if they've abandoned their account then what? Interesting to note that Paypal aren't as aggressive in pursuing lost money from transactions as they are in pursuing their own overdue Ebay fees either. And lets not get started on the mess they're making of sorting out scams - can you say guilty before proven innocent? I think many of the scam problems would be solved if everyone using paypal were forced to register a credit card where the balance - either positive or negative, was reconciled at the end of every month. Oh, and I'd like to see sellers obliged to pay for shipping a defective item BACK from the buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy67 Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Good points folks! kiwi - as eloquent as always! I've been thinking of emailing them re this for a while as I believe that it really affects our statutory rights as buyers and that the darker element of ebay will endeavour to rip real ebayer off! We appear to get hit on four different levels re fees: Listing fee commission on sale paypal handling fee money transfer I had an issue with paypal - wont go into details - but trading standards instructed me to get all information re resolution process from them as this process must be visible and accountable under UK law, they firstly knocked back my case, then once I pulled in all relevant info for the appeal looked at it again then knocked it back and finally when I asked for their process information they paid out on my case £100... andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassbloke Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 There is such a thing as choice. If you don;t like private auctions, then make a point of not participating in them. Everyone I've dealt with on ebay has been decent. I've bought and sold several amps and basses and all manner of other items and I've never been ripped off, swindled or given too much of a run around and the reason for that is because I avoid stuff that looks too good to be true. If you're interested in a high value item and on first contact, the buyer is unapproachable and evasive, walk away! It's not worth the hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 (edited) I'm having to sit on my hands in order that I don't get too worked up about eBay... they are essentially money grabbing tw*ts! That is from immediate personal experience. I have had an eBay account for 4 years, Powerseller, sold over 2200 items with absolute 100% positive feedback. Much of what I sell is used Leatherman & Gerber multi-tool items (a few BW/BT/BC members have bought from me) and I've happily plodded along putting up with their fees as it is a source of amusement for me and I get the chance to buy and sell items that I have an interest in added to which it subsidises my bass habit Move forward to 2 weeks ago and suddenly my account is suspended! Why? 'Using another company's trademark in a way that may confuse buyers about the source of goods or services, or confuses buyers into believing that the seller is affiliated with, sponsored by or endorsed by the trademark owner is both illegal and against eBay's policies. Examples include counterfeits, unauthorised replica items and items that bear the brand or logo of a company without that company's permission.' It turns out that I am not licensed to sell Leatherman products... I pointed out to eBay that the item that they had singled out was used and I'm not passing myself off as an authorised dealer, how could I 'IT IS USED'. This has fallen on deaf ears and despite a dozen emails explaining that the item is a genuine L'man product and that I am selling it as used, they have responded by stating that I am not endorsed or affiliated to the manufacturer! Of course I'm not but then again neither is anyone selling ANYTHING that is used on eBay. Essentially eBay claim that if a copyright owner signs up to their 'VeRO programme' then they simply have to inform eBay that they don't want somebody to be allowed to sell an item and it has to be automatically pulled! Anyway, I spat my dummy out and said (in my best Cartman voice) "scr*w you, I am going home". Only I can't. They won't let me close my account until I have paid all outstanding fees. Fine, let me see my account balance has been credited for the 2 numpties who I had initiated Non-paying bidder strikes against just prior to the suspension... No, I have to pay the balance and then I can access my account to see the balance. What! Who in there right mind would expect you to pay for something before you've had the chance to look at what you owe. Final leg - I had no choice but to pay the balance as eBay are no longer responding to my emails. Lo-and-behold, my balance is cleared I owe them not a bean and I am still not allowed access to my account AND they won't respond to my requests to close the account. I keep getting automated responses saying that I can't close my account as I am suspended... Aaargh! Rant over Edited July 16, 2007 by warwickhunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy67 Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 That is complete and utter pish! I hope you will pursue this? get on to trading standards in order to get the correct info and go for it! I am thinking of shutting my account down also - enough is enough!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 [quote name='andy67' post='32644' date='Jul 16 2007, 06:42 PM']That is complete and utter pish! I hope you will pursue this? get on to trading standards in order to get the correct info and go for it! I am thinking of shutting my account down also - enough is enough!!!![/quote] Unfortunately as with all things like this, you refer to the small print and they have you by the short and curlies! They certainly have no right to refuse me access to my account prior to me paying off my balance and had I pursed it legally they wouldn't have had a leg to stand. However a brief chat with our guitarist (who is a solicitor) and he pointed out that it would cost me more to pursue this than it was worth i.e. I had nothing to claim from them and they would probably give me access to my account at the 11th hour and I'd be left with the legal bill. Unfortunately you may not realise it but as you have agreed to their conditions they have the right to retain your details on file even though you close your account (as and when I can force that issue)! You may think that is b*ll*cks and that when you close your account that is it, but that's not what it says in the small print. Try closing your account and read the conditions imposed when you do close it. Oh and added to which you will find it very difficult to pursue anything against eBay with any great zeal as they are registered overseas, anything that I or anyone else elects to file against them will be expensive and protracted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 [quote name='bassbloke' post='32468' date='Jul 16 2007, 12:44 PM']Everyone I've dealt with on ebay has been decent. I've bought and sold several amps and basses and all manner of other items and I've never been ripped off, swindled or given too much of a run around and the reason for that is because I avoid stuff that looks too good to be true. If you're interested in a high value item and on first contact, the buyer is unapproachable and evasive, walk away! It's not worth the hassle.[/quote] Fair point but if they've listed the item as a certain specification and then claim ignorance afterwards when it turns out to be something else, then what? You can take them through the disputes process but if they've already spent the money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 eBay is riddled with problems and pitfalls for the unwary. I also made a purchase from the States a few months back ($350), a month later I received a package (which I got clattered for duty and tax, but hey it was my choice to buy from the States so no complaints there). On opening the package I was presented with a box of timber offcuts... WTF! I contacted the seller, nothing. I contacted PayPal and submitted a claim that the items was 'not as described' (no kidding). Unfortunately the seller simply claimed that they had sent the item and I was simply pulling some stunt. Where do you stand? You don't, you just have to lie down and take it! As I say the biggest insult is that I had to pay Duty, Tax and a RM handling charge to receive a box of firewood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassbloke Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 You can draw parallels between ebay and car boot sales,which started out as genuine places to find real bargains and items of curiosity. Now, the dealers and cowboys have moved in and most car boot sales are just dumping grounds for over-priced crap and dodgy far eastern produce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 [quote name='warwickhunt' post='32693' date='Jul 16 2007, 08:05 PM']eBay is riddled with problems and pitfalls for the unwary. I also made a purchase from the States a few months back ($350), a month later I received a package (which I got clattered for duty and tax, but hey it was my choice to buy from the States so no complaints there). On opening the package I was presented with a box of timber offcuts... WTF! I contacted the seller, nothing. I contacted PayPal and submitted a claim that the items was 'not as described' (no kidding). Unfortunately the seller simply claimed that they had sent the item and I was simply pulling some stunt. Where do you stand? You don't, you just have to lie down and take it! As I say the biggest insult is that I had to pay Duty, Tax and a RM handling charge to receive a box of firewood![/quote] Depending on what was written on the senders customs declaration, you should be able to claim back the duties paid or reduce them to a great extent . Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 [quote name='Hamster' post='32829' date='Jul 17 2007, 07:27 AM']Depending on what was written on the senders customs declaration, you should be able to claim back the duties paid or reduce them to a great extent . Hamster[/quote] Unfortunately that is a double edged sword. If you get the seller to declare the value as below the £30ish UK import limit and it's worth hundreds then you run the risk of only being able to claim back £30 if anything gets lost. To claim back the duty you have to supply C&E with evidence that the item cost less than their £30ish import limit, that means copies of your eBay/purchase receipt and copies of PayPal receipts and either way you can not claim back the handling charge (minimum of about £8). HMC&E are a lot more on the ball these days than they were even a couple of years ago, as more and more people purchase globally using electronic payments etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Nailed Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 [quote name='warwickhunt' post='32839' date='Jul 17 2007, 08:01 AM']If you get the seller to declare the value as below the £30ish UK import limit and it's worth hundreds then you run the risk of only being able to claim back £30 if anything gets lost. To claim back the duty you have to supply C&E with evidence that the item cost less than their £30ish import limit, that means copies of your eBay/purchase receipt and copies of PayPal receipts and either way you can not claim back the handling charge (minimum of about £8).[/quote] If you've been charged VAT and import then the C&E has caught the fact that your item is worth more than £30, even if they've declared it as £30...otherwise they wouldn't have charged you in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 [quote name='warwickhunt' post='32839' date='Jul 17 2007, 08:01 AM']HMC&E are a lot more on the ball these days than they were even a couple of years ago, as more and more people purchase globally using electronic payments etc.[/quote] Not always - I ordered a neck from the States recently, about £50 total. The sender marked it as a gift and didn't bother putting a value on the customs form (I didn't ask him to do this, btw). It got delivered no problem. I'd like to point out that I was quite prepared to pay the tax if asked. But hey ho, there you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 [quote name='Dan_Nailed' post='33945' date='Jul 19 2007, 01:02 AM']If you've been charged VAT and import then the C&E has caught the fact that your item is worth more than £30, even if they've declared it as £30...otherwise they wouldn't have charged you in the first place.[/quote] I was making a general statement re. the £30 limit. You're correct, the instance that I referred to was declared as worth $350. However there have been instances where I received items worth less than the declared value (the senders thought they were doing me a favour in case of insurance claims). I've been slapped with the Duty, handling etc. on items that I paid $25 for but the sellers declared them as $100's of $! In those instances I've managed to claim back the VAT/duty but not the handling, as RM stated it wasn't their fault that they had to intervene. re. Neepheid's lucky import. Yes, occasionally you do get away with it, I imported stuff for a couple of years blissfully unaware that I should have paid taxes/duty etc (valued $10 - $1000). Then one of my items got picked out by HMC&E and in the last 2 years I've basically gone from never being stopped to expecting every single item to be picked up! Oh and the gift thing has absolutely no effect on the import limit, that is an urban myth. If it is declared as a gift and worth $100 and HMC&E pick it out, you get slapped with the charges... I know, I tried that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6905722.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6905722.stm[/url] Thought this story about Ebay's relative success or lack of is interesting. They've realised the auction site would have a limited appeal and have managed to diversify before the competition caught up. Its a well managed company if nothing else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) [quote name='warwickhunt' post='33964' date='Jul 19 2007, 07:11 AM']Oh and the gift thing has absolutely no effect on the import limit, that is an urban myth. If it is declared as a gift and worth $100 and HMC&E pick it out, you get slapped with the charges... I know, I tried that [/quote] Just to correct you there, it does have an effect. If it's a gift you're allowed up to £36 tax free, if it's commercial goods the limit is a paltry £18. [url="http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/downloadFile?contentID=HMCE_CL_000014"]http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalW...=HMCE_CL_000014[/url] See section 2.3 You're right about it have heehaw effect when the value is $100 though Edited July 19, 2007 by neepheid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Cougar Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Careful what I say here since we could be being watched as we speak but a 'very close friend' of mine bought a Gibson Les Paul Custom shop for $3000, as this would have meant over £260 in Vat, another £50 in import duties etc my friend asked them to send it marked at $700, this was a massive risk in terms of the insurance but since it paid off never mind eh. Saved £200+, and since my friend pays over £10k a year in tax so that crackheads and 14 single mothers don't have to trouble themselves with work it was a guilt free experience - apparently. I love fraud, sorry my friend does, but remember kids it isn't big or clever. I was especially pleased since I once applied to join the HMC&E Graduate scheme and went to a final interview only for them to not give me the job, not let me know for 3 months and then say 'we felt you needed to understand customs and excise in the broader sense and get more experience of it' -duh!! What?? Well, of course, hence the application for the graduate scheme!!?? And relax.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 [quote name='neepheid' post='33988' date='Jul 19 2007, 08:41 AM']Just to correct you there, it does have an effect. If it's a gift you're allowed up to £36 tax free, if it's commercial goods the limit is a paltry £18. [url="http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/downloadFile?contentID=HMCE_CL_000014"]http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalW...=HMCE_CL_000014[/url] See section 2.3 You're right about it have heehaw effect when the value is $100 though [/quote] We are both correct! I knew from first hand experience that I had charges levied at me for items sent as gifts that were declared with a low value. I double checked my receipts etc. and I was charged which lead me to call HMC&E to clarify why this was so; it was pointed out that I wasn't charged VAT... I had been charged Import Duty and a separate handling fee levied by RM! They'll have you either way. Strangely enough I've never asked a seller/shipper to do anything one way or the other with regard to declarations and in fact I have specified that one or two senders should declare the full value and categorically not send it as a gift. It really isn't worth running the risk of them telling any authority (UK or otherwise) that you asked them to falsify legal documents (which customs declarations are). You could get slapped big style if that were the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalMan Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 [b]Ebay [/b]- I have used Auctionsniper for a for items where I didn't want to jump in early & get bid up. Decide & set your maximum bid & set it then let the Sniper get on with it. [list] [*]If the price runs away early you get an email warning & can take a view whether you really want to pay a bit more. [*]If it runs away in the last half hour - often the way it seems - well again you can jump back in if you have time, but you had decided on your limit so no great loss really. [*]You might be lucky & win, but for a bit less than you might have - which is where I could clearly be a bit galling for the seller [/list] Then there is [b]PayPal [/b] - 3 claims in all my years using eBay, 0 closed in my favour by PP. [list=1] [*] - The only good result when PP would do nothing & I managed to get the money back via the visa that funded PP, which led to a bleating email saying I should have used the Resolution Centre, ignoring the fact that I had and had basically been told to get stuffed. [*] - Resolved amicably with the buyer when Royal Mail took over a month to deliver a properly addressed 1st class post package. In trying to do the right thing & make the refund I managed to go about it the wrong way & incur further PP charges. Then thankfully the parcel arrived & my refund & the additional charges all got repaid, but if it had been lost I should have been stiffed double PP charges [*] - Last one was my fault making a purchase late on a Friday evening with beer goggles on from an auction that I should have guessed stunk, but there you go. Subsequently got an email for eBay saying that I may have made a purchase from an account that had been "compromised" & I should try to stop any payment. Too late for that as PP had sent the funds. Initiated a claim (the wrong thing it transpires) assuming that nothing would arrive. Sadly a few weeks later some cheap imitation cr@p turned up, but by then I was on the wrong resolution path (did not arrive) instead of (not as advertised) and you can only a single resolution claim on an item and not correct it if the facts change later. This one I have had to write off to experience [/list] I suppose it [i]could [/i]be worse though!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cooke Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 [quote name='warwickhunt' post='32693' date='Jul 16 2007, 08:05 PM']eBay is riddled with problems and pitfalls for the unwary. I also made a purchase from the States a few months back ($350), a month later I received a package (which I got clattered for duty and tax, but hey it was my choice to buy from the States so no complaints there). On opening the package I was presented with a box of timber offcuts... WTF![/quote] ah yes, the modern equivalent of the "pig in a poke" scam... or the origin of the phrase "the cat's out of the bag"... and you got "left holding the bag" [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke[/url] the problem for you is that the sum involved is so small the authorities can't be bothered and e-bay doesn't really give a ... either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarnbass Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 (edited) I did have a good thing going with buying laptops from (a place) at 10% of their trade price, and they might only need a keyboard, but were otherwise brand new, so you could make so much money and undercut every other guy selling the same thing, just couldn't get enough to make a living out of it, and these fking things go wrong so much, every other one develops some fault after a weeks use. Anyway, I've really looked at all the possible ways to make some money out of ebay but I can't come up with anything. Take cheap stuff like games, DVD's, whatever, I'm not gonna be able to get the stuff cheaper than any of the other guys on ebay buying the same sh*t at trade, so to even sell something you'd have to undercut so much that it wouldn't be worth the effort for the pittons that you would make, and even if you could sell in major volume, you still have to deal with all the stupid questions, the paypal disputes, posting, etc, it'd be a full time job and a half. Selling the expensive stuff which gets you the most profit is still worse though, because of the postal risks with loss and damage, and of course, fraudsters... I'm only in the 400's of transactions, and I've already had enough of using it for business. Buying is such a nightmare too, who can just hit the buy button? You can't, you have to check feedback, buyer protection, check if there's a VAT charge buried under the stupid amount of inane sh*t covering the page, I hate it. Still, failing a mate or someone on a forum like this buying your gear, where else are you going to get a decent price for it? If you're just selling the odd bit of sh*t here and there, you can't beat it really. Edited August 10, 2007 by guitarnbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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