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Is there a reason for the apparent dislike for active basses...


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[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1485775649' post='3226512']
And there's that lot of players that use passive P and J's and say they don't want anything to do with active basses but add a Sansamp (or similar) in the signal chain, thus making their basses "active". ;)
[/quote]

You could route your bass and stick the Sansamp in your bass.

Probably wouldn't be much wood left in your bass...

But then of course, routing for batteries and circuits obviously takes away from everything that a passive has on the "tone wood" front.

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[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1485861522' post='3227212']
Arent we talking passive basses.Not passive amps.It's a given that the amp has an EQ and an active circuit. But the bass itself is still passive. Good point though.
[/quote]
The final result is what the speaker does, passive bass and active EQ amp, active bass and passive EQ amp is the same but you have to walk further to adjust it mid song.

As blue would say "I'm calling shenanigans" on the purity of a passive bass when it goes right into a modern amp with the EQ boosted.

Edited by stingrayPete1977
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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1485859374' post='3227193']
Passive amp as in a passive EQ section.
[/quote]

I accept the risk of being dreadfully wrong and making myself look like an arse, but I believe the EQ sections on the Ashdown CTM series (and the Little Bastard) are old-fashioned "FMV" tone stacks - those are passive EQ, aren't they?

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[quote name='prowla' timestamp='1485798899' post='3226807']
The difference is it's not in the bass.

Actually, I have a SansAmp which I use to boost passive bass to match the active.

I do get the point, and indeed I have said on occasion that the instrument includes the amp and speakers too!

However, looking at the component parts, an active bass is one which has onboard active electronics and a passive is one which doesn't.
[/quote]

I think it's obvious that i was exagerating a bit on this ;). Active is active and passive is passive, etc...

My example was to point out the amount of users saying that they use a passive bass so they don't have to fiddle endlessly with the EQ section of an active bass but then they go and add a preamp pedal to their signal chain to be able to obtain the desired tone. The forum is filled with threads about "achieving this tone" that end up with the addition of a sansamp/vtbass/BDI/etc.
In those cases the fiddling avoided on the bass will move on to the pedal, don't you agree?



[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1485865531' post='3227260']
You could route your bass and stick the Sansamp in your bass.

Probably wouldn't be much wood left in your bass...

But then of course, routing for batteries and circuits obviously takes away from everything that a passive has on the "tone wood" front.
[/quote]

Nonsense! I could fit Chris Wolstenholme's entire pedal board inside the bass with spare room for the roadie. Have you even seen my bass?

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[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1485872625' post='3227369']


I accept the risk of being dreadfully wrong and making myself look like an arse, but I believe the EQ sections on the Ashdown CTM series (and the Little Bastard) are old-fashioned "FMV" tone stacks - those are passive EQ, aren't they?
[/quote]
I'm not familiar with them but it's very possible, now how many people are using one without a pedal or sansamp etc?

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[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1485880697' post='3227469']
I think it's obvious that i was exagerating a bit on this ;). Active is active and passive is passive, etc...

My example was to point out the amount of users saying that they use a passive bass so they don't have to fiddle endlessly with the EQ section of an active bass but then they go and add a preamp pedal to their signal chain to be able to obtain the desired tone. The forum is filled with threads about "achieving this tone" that end up with the addition of a sansamp/vtbass/BDI/etc.
In those cases the fiddling avoided on the bass will move on to the pedal, don't you agree?
[/quote]
Well, I think it relates to the design of the given bass's sound; in the case of a passive one it has been optimised in one way, whereas an active one will have been targeted at the result after the electronics (or even the versatility of the electronics), even if they are just simple volume and tone.

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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1485882045' post='3227479']
I'm not familiar with them but it's very possible, now how many people are using one without a pedal or sansamp etc?
[/quote]

I be two of them lad. (As long as you ignore the tuning pedal, and the overdrive which I just kick in a solo boost...)

(PS a quick interweb search suggests "FMV" is indeed one type of passive tone stack - [url="http://pickroar.com/1003/the-tone-stack-explained-in-english-for-humans/comment-page-1/"]http://pickroar.com/1003/the-tone-stack-explained-in-english-for-humans/comment-page-1/[/url] - basically three bandpass filters, as opposed to your fancy, new-fangled cut/boost job.)

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[quote name='ians' timestamp='1485976998' post='3228224']
umm...isn't it all in the fingers anyway?
[/quote]

Well apparently lots of those guys using 'passive' instruments in the late 70s put them through such gizmos as the Alembic pre amp - thus - aherm - preamping them!! Also I've heard of people using Sadowski floor pre amps. Nate Watts is a good example re the Alembic in the studio (some of the famous Songs in the Key of Life tracks) - he later used a Stingray which of course has the onboard preamp.

I'm guessing a decent proportion of all of this is in the fingers as you say. I personally prefer the sound of an on board pre amp (well a Musicman one at least) and dislike the colouration given by some passive instruments. That said modern active EQ amps help a lot of passive instruments to get over some of the issues they had with audibility in the 70s/80s.

Edited by drTStingray
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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1484843585' post='3219030']
Two problems with this approach:

1. You can't fix what is mostly a time domain problem (bad room acoustics) with a frequency domain solution (EQ).

2. And if you could, then every time you make an EQ adjustment on your bass, you are potentially negating the correction you've applied at your amp.
[/quote]Of course everything is a compromise and your EQ cannot solve for all frequencies at all locations in a room. If you could see all the nodes it would terrify you. However setting my amp first, and using the active EQ on my bass works for me.

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[quote name='GreeneKing' timestamp='1485699226' post='3225875']
So an active bass with an uncoloured in bass pre-amp set flat is a passive bass? I see your point but the passive signal is boosted massively both in any pre-amp and amp itself and 'colour' is very often added.
[/quote]

I own several active basses and just one of them puts out a signal that is boosted compared to the passive signal (and even then, it's not by a huge factor). A Baxendall-type tone control needs (IIRC) a gain of 3x to maintain the same level of output as input, but that's the only gain in a typical active preamp. The change of impedance and the ability to use a tone control network with both boost and cut are the real points of an active preamp.

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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1486318004' post='3230851']
I think people confuse boosting signal with boosting eq?
[/quote] I think people are just confused.
Some passive basses are good, some aren't so good
Some active basses are good, some active basses are bad. (and sometimes that's a crappy active system's fault)
Just play the things!

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I was always passive a J or P guy, however I'm now active with a Stingray 4 & an Overwater 5.

I think it comes down to the skill and passion of the maker/builder. There's an interesting utube vid of Scott (bass lessons) discussing this subject with the Wizard Chris May (Overwater).

Comes down to personal taste & requirements- tools for the job & your own pleasure.

Regards

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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1486318004' post='3230851']
I think people confuse boosting signal with boosting eq?
[/quote]
[quote name='prowla' timestamp='1486745452' post='3234334']

My rule is: if it sounds louder, then it is louder!
[/quote]

Hmmm... I think you might be confusing boosting signal with boosting eq!

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[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1486857140' post='3235147']
Hmmm... I think you might be confusing boosting signal with boosting eq!
[/quote]
(This is a bit like the "Why are the adverts on telly louder than the programme?" question.)

If you turn up all of the eq, does that count as boosting the signal? :-)

Actually, I really did mean the overall volume; my Rickys aren't as loud as my Statii... :-)

Edited by prowla
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[quote name='prowla' timestamp='1486889715' post='3235211']

(This is a bit like the "Why are the adverts on telly louder than the programme?" question.)

If you turn up all of the eq, does that count as boosting the signal? :-)

Actually, I really did mean the overall volume; my Rickys aren't as loud as my Statii... :-)
[/quote]

If you have a passive bass and passive EQ on the amp when it's maxed out that is all it can give ANY adjustments you make on the bass or amp EQ is actually cutting the signal somewhere. If you have an active bass or EQ anything over 0 is boosting something synthetically that your bass didn't produce as such.

The tricky bit is cutting certain frequencies can make it sound louder to the human ear and boosting the bass won't do much if your using a tiny speaker other than steal all the power from the amp.

Edited by stingrayPete1977
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[quote name='prowla' timestamp='1486889715' post='3235211']

(This is a bit like the "Why are the adverts on telly louder than the programme?" question.)

If you turn up all of the eq, does that count as boosting the signal? :-)

Actually, I really did mean the overall volume; my Rickys aren't as loud as my Statii... :-)
[/quote]

Depends on the profile of the tone controls. You're unlikely to get a straight level boost. You're more likely to get a lumpy louder version of the non boosted sound, esp since most active tone controls will boost across a sort of bell curve profile centred around a particular frequency.

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[quote name='prowla' timestamp='1486889715' post='3235211']


Actually, I really did mean the overall volume; my Rickys aren't as loud as my Statii... :-)
[/quote]

Also are the the Statii actually louder? trick question, if the signal was set to flat on the active Status would it still have a hotter output than the passive Ricky, who knows, even the if the "flat" points have a centre detent on the preamp they might not be truly flat as such and could still be boosting a bit of something.

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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1486905569' post='3235374']
Also are the the Statii actually louder? trick question, if the signal was set to flat on the active Status would it still have a hotter output than the passive Ricky, who knows, even the if the "flat" points have a centre detent on the preamp they might not be truly flat as such and could still be boosting a bit of something.
[/quote]
Based on setting passive controls to full and actives on central detent where available or full otherwise.

But yes, if the pre-amp is boosting something, even when set to flat, then yes they are louder!

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  • 2 weeks later...

The only issue I have had regarding an active bass is the cheap style battery connector used on my Ibanez. It's one of these jobbies:



It's very tightly bound into the case and I always fear I'll break a connection when trying to get the old battery off it properly. I'm certain it will be the first thing I have to replace on the bass, which in all other regards is an excellent instrument that will last decades.

Saying that, my other active bass has a lovely pop-open slot for the battery with no fiddly connectors and so takes all of 10 seconds to switch things around.

Also, I would agree with the general idea that it is nice to have a passive option on an active bass if only as a means of avoiding dead batteries causing trouble during a gig. The smart money is on changing for a new battery before a gig, but we all forget to do these things sometimes and having a bass go distorted and dull and then needing to remove the back-plate and pop in a new battery is not something I would be happy with doing live.

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[quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1487926497' post='3244126']

Saying that, my other active bass has a lovely pop-open slot for the battery with no fiddly connectors and so takes all of 10 seconds to switch things around.

[/quote]

They are great... but they can also fail. The metal plate contact is bent to spring against the battery terminals, but over time this gets looser.One day you find yourself with intermittent trouble and if you're like me you'll check ANYTHING before that :rolleyes: - don't be like me ;)
Different brands of batteries als have slightly different dimensions, with some feeling decidedly looser. Another thing to consider.

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