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five-string.co.uk

Putting a badge on to double the price? Fodera P & J

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Yes, I'm sure Fodera has done the market research to suggest that there will be some people who'll spend $4,000 on a well-built passive P or J.

However, I cannot help but thinking there has to be a limit to what a brand / name does to persuade people to spend their money.

http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2017/01/08/fodera-unveils-monarch-p-and-emperor-j-standard-classic-basses/

What are your thoughts?

Greg

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[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1484063466' post='3212345']
They're Fender inspired so why not do the same with pricing? :-)
[/quote]

An equivalent Fender in terms of wood, and features is less than half-price

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I'm sure Fodera would argue quite strongly that they're at custom shop level. The point I was trying to make is that you can get a better bass (not Fodera) for half the price of a current (especially with the recent price hikes) MIA fender. Edited by markstuk

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I really like Scott's comment at the bottom of the page.....

[indent=2][color=#696969][i]"[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]I was waiting for the price to drop on these: 4K for a passive j or p bass with very little customisation has me going all kinds of "ehhhhh", considering you're in sadowsky NYC territory price wise. And leaving you space for a preamp is kind of like selling a Lamborghini with a big gap in the engine bay where the turbo would go. Man, drop the price by 2k, and outsource the labour to Japan, Ken Smith style. People can still "have" a fodera of company monitored quality. I think we all put the brand up on a bit of a pedestal, and this line feels like it's taking the piss a bit"[/font][/i][/color][/indent]

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No one is forced to buy one... I certainly won't be buying a Fodera of any kind.. A sadowsky perhaps... ;)

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[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1484063980' post='3212352']
I'm sure Fodera would argue quite strongly that they're at custom shop level. The point I was trying to make is that you can get a better bass (not Fodera) for half the price of a current (especially with the recent price hikes) MIA fender.
[/quote]

Sure, I appreciate they would argue that, but as it says: "[color=#000000][font=open-sans, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=4]built in batch with limited options to keep costs and wait time to a minimum".[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=open-sans, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=4]I'm not having a dig at Fodera, [/size][/font][/color][font="open-sans, arial, helvetica, sans-serif"][color="#000000"][size=4]moreso curious to what type of person would be attracted to spending their money on these - when the market place offers so much more for a LOT less.[/size][/color][/font] Edited by five-string.co.uk

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It's a very pretty bass , although the headstock doesn't really work for me, but 4k for a passive VVT Jazz?

That'd buy you something very special indeed, custom built to your own spec, from a master luthier. Edited by Cato

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[quote name='five-string.co.uk' timestamp='1484063996' post='3212353']
I really like Scott's comment at the bottom of the page.....

[indent=2][color=#696969][i]"[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]I was waiting for the price to drop on these: 4K for a passive j or p bass with very little customisation has me going all kinds of "ehhhhh", considering you're in sadowsky NYC territory price wise. And leaving you space for a preamp is kind of like selling a Lamborghini with a big gap in the engine bay where the turbo would go. Man, drop the price by 2k, and outsource the labour to Japan, Ken Smith style. People can still "have" a fodera of company monitored quality. I think we all put the brand up on a bit of a pedestal, and this line feels like it's taking the piss a bit"[/font][/i][/color][/indent]
[/quote]
Following the car metaphor, to me these super P/Js are like buying a Lambo with a Ford body.

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A lot of these will end up in the hands of gigging pros in the USA. It's a very different market over there compared to here with a much larger pool of pro gigs available.

At that level the additional cost is pretty small compared to potential income from gigging.

One decent gig would cover the cost premium over an alternative high end J or P.

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Its a really lovely bass, and i have to say i love the look.. sexy Jazz Bass. but Fodera price there basses on there name. Its a Fodera, and they know it. You just know its gonna feel awesome though. Edited by bubinga5

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Yet of course many people would spend the same money on an old Fender, same construction (although even Fenders then weren't hand-carved like Foderas are). Yes you might have some added 'mojo' or providence, but that's not important to everyone.

If you went for a Masterbuilt Fender, you'd be in the same price territory.
If you went for a Sadowsky NYC Ultra Vintage, you'd be in the same price territory.

So it comes down to what sounds and feels best to you......are you really going to not spend that (assuming you have it spare) just because you could spend less on an instrument that might not feel/sound as good?

FWIW, I'm less excited about the Emporer J, but the Monarch P sounds supreme to my ears!

Si

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[quote name='five-string.co.uk' timestamp='1484063227' post='3212342']
What are your thoughts?

Greg
[/quote]

I spoke with them at the BGM about pricing generally. They only make 10% profit on each instrument because they throw away huge amounts of wood from the stuff they buy up in bulk and they provide a lot of benefits for their employees. It's also not cheap to run a business in central New York.

Having said that, in terms of these basses, there are loads out there around and above this price mark with a similar spec...Avella Coppolo, Sadowsky, Celinder to name but a few.

I think the cost of instruments has sky rocketed in the last 10 years - perhaps due to the poor value of the £ these days and no discernable increase in wages due to the impact of redundancies after the recession on the availability of labour. Anyway, I started to learn how to make my own and haven't looked back.

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So a handmade bass should be the same price as a production line bass because the shape is vaguely similar?

A Bentley is basically the same as a Skoda so why is there such a price difference?

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I really don't see the problem - whilst 4k is a lot for some, it's not actually that much for others. The market is very densely packed in the lower price brackets so why shouldn't they aim for the high earners?

Yes they could outsource to the East & monitor it but then you wouldn't be getting a real Fodera, you'd be getting a generic knock-off with an expensive brand stuck on the headstock - I think this would be worse than paying the high fee for the US one. Wages in the US are [generally] high, rent where their factory is comparatively high so it makes sense for the basses to be moderately pricey too.

As we've seen from Blue's posts - there are lots of musicians over there doing 4 hour sets multiple times a week, paying 4k for a solid tool that is going to have to work for a lot of hours seems reasonable to me - if you don't like it, don't buy it there are plenty of cheaper alternatives available.

Having said that - the red one in that link looks horrible, though I assume it plays nicely, I wouldn't buy one purely on the look of the thing. I did quite like that P they released last year though. Edited by Lw.

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[quote name='five-string.co.uk' timestamp='1484063227' post='3212342']
Yes, I'm sure Fodera has done the market research to suggest that there will be some people who'll spend $4,000 on a well-built passive P or J.

However, I cannot help but thinking there has to be a limit to what a brand / name does to persuade people to spend their money.

[url="http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2017/01/08/fodera-unveils-monarch-p-and-emperor-j-standard-classic-basses/"]http://www.notreble....classic-basses/[/url]

What are your thoughts?

Greg
[/quote]

I agree, for the money I would expect more , they are asking 4k for a bass that has vvt passive electronics, truss rod access at the body end, a bolt on neck, no fancy tonewoods either on this just plain old Ash or Alder (nothing wrong with either of those woods but on a 4k bass you would expect more options) and then "[color=#000000][font=open-sans, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=4]Fodera builds in the control cavity to allow for modding it to a preamp in the future" , yeah because I really want to spend that kind of money to end up modding the bass in the future, not too mention the generic looks that bring to mind the Peavey Milestone basses and the Ibanez Expressionist bass[/size][/font][/color]

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About £2.5k, then? (Plus another few hundred to get it sent to the UK?) I think the Monarch P looks gorgeous and, if I had the money, would gladly buy one.

I would definitely rather spend the cash on this, a new instrument of the highest quality, than a 40-50 year old piece of crap that should really be put in the bin. I wouldn't buy anything with failing frets, failing electronics, failing and rusting hardware, flaking paintwork, and very ordinary construction.

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[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1484141775' post='3212965']
About £2.5k, then? (Plus another few hundred to get it sent to the UK?) I think the Monarch P looks gorgeous and, if I had the money, would gladly buy one.

I would definitely rather spend the cash on this, a new instrument of the highest quality, than a 40-50 year old piece of crap that should really be put in the bin. I wouldn't buy anything with failing frets, failing electronics, failing and rusting hardware, flaking paintwork, and very ordinary construction.
[/quote]

At today's exchange rate, $4k = £3302.78

Plus say $150.00 shipping

$4150, = £3302.78

+3.7% import duty = £3424.983

+ 20% VAT = [b]£4109.98[/b]

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[quote name='five-string.co.uk' timestamp='1484063764' post='3212348']


An equivalent Fender in terms of wood, and features is less than half-price
[/quote]

Bentley, Ford, Maserati, Opal.... well they're all made from the same materials aren't they?

Ok, that is a bit extreme, but engineering must count for some of the price difference.

I still don't see me buying one. Edited by Grangur

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[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1484143759' post='3212995']
Bentley, Ford, Maserati, Opal.... well they're all made from the same materials aren't they?

Ok, that is a bit extreme, but engineering must count for some of the price difference.

I still don't see me buying one.
[/quote]

I guess that's the point. If the materials are the same, and the consequential sound is aimed at representing a 'P' or 'J' sound, then essentially Fodera are stating that their engineering skills, brand and style = justification of price. Without trying one I couldn't commit to an opinion, but I'd probably not buy one either!

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[quote name='five-string.co.uk' timestamp='1484169567' post='3213337']


I guess that's the point. If the materials are the same, and the consequential sound is aimed at representing a 'P' or 'J' sound, then essentially Fodera are stating that their engineering skills, brand and style = justification of price. Without trying one I couldn't commit to an opinion, but I'd probably not buy one either!
[/quote]

Well, to continue the car analogy, why would you buy a Bentley that's doing it's best to look like a Ford?
Or maybe that's the sob in me?

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