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NBD (future): the AliExpress experiment


mcnach
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[attachment=234699:IMG_5727.JPG]I got a "Gibson Les Paul" from aliexpress last year for the princely sum of £120.61 delivered in 10 days. The finish was beautiful and the guitar was playable out of the box. The horror stories are now appearing to be a thing of the past with these guitars and the QC issues are not as bad. I know a few folks who have bought guitars with no problems at all. The sellers are generally highly attentive to what you want and will do what you want done. In respect to the one I bought, it needed the electrics seen to. The pots were 250K which I upgraded to 500K and I swapped out the playable "Epiphone" pups for Iron Gear, I have done nothing else with it at all. That is my experience with aliexpress. Also the seller does not get the money till you receive and are happy with your purchase.

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[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1482920518' post='3203480']
Mike Newell on here bought a Fodera copy from Ali Express and it was a heap of junk, so will be interesting to see how this pans out.

It's a little difficult, as many people want to 'try a 5 string' (or whatever feature it is you're exploring), but understandably not spend a lot of money to do so. However, judging it on a £170 plank thrown together may not give you the best experience......so consider something else before giving up on 5s if this experience fails :)

Si
[/quote]


You're right about the trying out something on a substandard example. Over the years I've experienced that at various levels!

I do have experience with 5 strings 'though. My favourites were a USA MusicMan SUB5 and a Lakland 5502. I had others by Crafter, Squier, Peavey, G&L... They ranged from meh to pretty cool. The Lakland is probably the one bass I could use as my only bass, if I had to choose a 5-string. But I sold them all as I just don't use them and it's hard to bring yourself to use an instrument when you don't seem to find enough use in what it brings to the table, and miss what a couple of other very good 4-string basses give you. I haven't given up on 5 strings. I just haven't needed one enough, and I haven't found one that I like as much as my 4-strings. But I do like playing on one at times and I'd like to be comfortable enough on either.

Years ago I went for an audition for a new starting band playing a funk/hip-hop mix... and it went ok but I was not their first choice. However, it turns out their first choice didn't work out, they had a couple of gigs coming up and no bass player. They called me to see if I was still interested and up for the challenge (first gig in 6 days). I said yes. We'd get in a couple of practices at the band leader's place and I'd bring my recorder to record everything (all original songs and nothing recorded, written out, nothing at all... in fact the songs were pretty much evolving and there was a degree of improvisation on the spot every time :lol:). The guy says "don't bring anything, I have a very good acoustic bass and you should use that, keep the volume down in the flat...". In those days I had no transport and as he insisted so much about the acoustic bass and it was my first real experience with the band I decided to do as told. As I arrive he hands me this beautiful thing "here, this is for you". It was a 5-string fretless. I had barely played any fretless at that stage and I had never played a 5 string either. I sweated a lot :lol: For my second practice I brought a small combo and my Warwick Corvette, with 4 strings and nicely fitted frets ;)
But that ledt a mark and I wanted to be able to play any instrument reasonably well (well, reasonably well for my standard... I'm far from a being a pro).

So I kind of miss having a 5-string bass whose sound and feel I like enough, but I'm not willing to spend several hundred in a great instrument. A squier quality instrument will do me just fine.

Same with fretless. I've owned a few good ones... but you know which one I kept after selling all the others? You'll be horrified/amused. A Sue Ryder Precision. Yup! I removed the frets and had the fingerboard planed nicely by a luthier I knew in Edinburgh. Put a decent pickup on it and nylon tapewound strings. It is not the best fretless bass, I guarantee you that ;) But it's nice enough to play and it makes the right noises for my purpose.

Some people have more refined tastes ;) but I have a couple of lowly Squier basses that work very well and I'm happy to use. That's kind of the point I'm aiming to reach with this 'experiment'. It's never going to be the bass to kill all basses, but it may just be ok for me to use and have around for not much money. A bass that's going to be a little unique, and that's also exciting. And if that fails, it looks like I'd have bought a wall decoration for £160 :P

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[quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1482925175' post='3203526']
Me as well. Who's going for one first? Left handed one for me though.
[/quote]
Something like this?

Been there - done that. ;)
However I needed to do some work on it before it was a player.
- Aligned the pickups to the strings, the bridge pu was moved over by 3 millimeters, the neck pu by 1 millimeter.
- Due to the moving of the pickups I also had to move the pickguard.
- Reshaped the nut, they just put on a right handed one so this needed to be seriously modified.
- Gave the tuner bushings a few knocks on their head, they were mounted crooked.
- The fingerboard had several less good looking and finished spots, re-finished these.
- Crowned the frets where needed and polished them, they were level but rough finished in a lot spots. I just can't and won't cope with this reversed crap!
- Done a full shielding of the controls cavity, there was none whatsoever.
- Made a thumb rest.
- Made a new truss rod cover.
- Replaced the strap holders, what was on there was mounted with very thin and short screws, to leave those would have been waiting for an accident to happen.
- Checked if all the screws and bolts were tightened and if they weren't tightened them (more often than not they were loose!).
- Did a full and thorough setup.

Rebuild diary can be found [url="http://theharleybentonclub.proboards.com/thread/669/lefty-rickenfaker-4005-aliexpress"]here[/url].

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[quote name='blablas' timestamp='1482937630' post='3203624']
Something like this?

Been there - done that. ;)
However I needed to do some work on it before it was a player.
- Aligned the pickups to the strings, the bridge pu was moved over by 3 millimeters, the neck pu by 1 millimeter.
- Due to the moving of the pickups I also had to move the pickguard.
- Reshaped the nut, they just put on a right handed one so this needed to be seriously modified.
- Gave the tuner bushings a few knocks on their head, they were mounted crooked.
- The fingerboard had several less good looking and finished spots, re-finished these.
- Crowned the frets where needed and polished them, they were level but rough finished in a lot spots. I just can't and won't cope with this reversed crap!
- Done a full shielding of the controls cavity, there was none whatsoever.
- Made a thumb rest.
- Made a new truss rod cover.
- Replaced the strap holders, what was on there was mounted with very thin and short screws, to leave those would have been waiting for an accident to happen.
- Checked if all the screws and bolts were tightened and if they weren't tightened them (more often than not they were loose!).
- Did a full and thorough setup.

Rebuild diary can be found [url="http://theharleybentonclub.proboards.com/thread/669/lefty-rickenfaker-4005-aliexpress"]here[/url].
[/quote]

very interesting read! and those truss rod covers are fantastic!!! well done!!! ah, I wish I had access to that kind of technology!

Glad all the misaligned parts were easy to realign. My pickup will be routed onto the body, no pickguard, so no much room for misalignments there! Although it would be easy to create a pickguard for it afterwards if needed. Hey, I bought a Retrovibe that had its bridge pickup misaligned with a slightly enlarged pickup route, meaning that it fit nicely on one end and left an unsightly gap on the other. Fortunately it was easy to fix by modifying the pickguard so that it was a bit larger, and David from Retrovibe was happy to pay for it.

It's the kind of work I am well prepared to do. It doesn't scare me... heh, in fact right now I am taking a rest before I tidy up my Matt Freeman Squier Precision... I had it converted to Jazz configuration, and now I just moved the neck pickup towards the bridge. I got a new pickguard done, and I've been chiselling away making room for the pickup where I want it. You can't leave tools near me when I'm not at work or gigging... I'll have to do something :lol:

I had to laugh at the nut, 'though. Really? A right handed nut? It does show how little the person(s) making that guitar knew or cared. Do you remember what seller was that?

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[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1482943323' post='3203666']
[...] the Chinese instruments are built to deceive. I think the key difference is that the Japanese manufacturers were trying to score sales by producing a good quality product, whereas the Chinese builders on Aliexpress are deceiving the buyer and hoping to win sales by simply offering a Gibson Les Paul for sub-Epiphone money. You are buying into a scam, ultimately. [/quote]

It depends.
Some instruments attempt to look like Fender, Gibson etc instruments. I don't think they try to deceive the customer. The customer knows full well what they're buying: a counterfeit, of lower quality, which may look the part. I'm not a fan of that kind of business.

Some builders offer you options that just are not available in bona fide instruments, or are willing to build something that does not resemble another manufacturer's instrument. They're generally build cheaply, but again, the buyer has a good idea of what they're buying. There may be someone who thinks their left-handed Les Paul in a completely unseen before colour is a real Les Paul despite costing only $200... but that's not going to be the average customer and that person is simply deceiving himself.

A while ago I bought a Sue Ryder Precision. I did not expect it to be as good as a Fender, for example, and it wasn't. But it's an instrument that with some minor attention works well and I still use it. I turned it into a fretless and it's an instrument that does its job well. Sue Ryder did not attempt to deceive anybody, and the headstock shape and name reflected that. You can get the same sort of treatment from many builders in Aliexpress.

Counterfeiting is not what they're about. They're about sales and will sell anything you want if they can make it... You want a cheap custom spec bass... you can certainly order that.

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1482943323' post='3203666'] Chinese luthiers can, and will, produce brilliant faultless instruments, but that is a different market to Aliexpress.[/quote]

Not at $200, of course not. It would be ridiculous to expect that.
Some sellers do give indication that they can, if asked, built something of quality. They don't charge $200 for those, 'though.

I think the problem is too many people have been blinded by greed and somehow convinced themselves that they can get a $2000 worth of instrument at $200 because it's China, and it just doesn't work that way.


[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1482943323' post='3203666']
From what I've read from people who have gone to the effort of commissioning Chinese-built products, you basically have to watch them like hawks and communicate clearly about every aspect of the build you want included. They may try and swap out components with inferior equivalents, or simply install the pickups in the wrong place or finish in the wrong colour.[/quote]

Having dealt with Chinese businesses at my job, I'm very aware of communication issues. It can be a real nightmare. It pays to write concise and clear instructions... but even then misunderstandings do arise, it's true, ha! Still, they are not stupid and they want you to be happy so that you give them your money. They will work with you, you just need to remain focused, feed information in bite size chunks, and remain polite.

Trying to give you lower spec components than specified? There are crooks in every country. If I commissioned a serious instrument I would have researched the builder and I'd be satisfied they are genuine. If you commission a budget instrument, there are no such issues, yes, of course you will get cheap components. You can see on eBay pretty much what kind of components you'll get. They will work. But if you buy a budget instrument with view to upgrade and modify it, that fits the bill perfectly.

Wrong colour or pickup in the wrong place? They don't get paid. Simple.
The seller I'm dealing with asked me for colour examples, he saw them, and was happy they can get something close enough and his words were something like "I'll send you pictures after staining. If not happy, we will change it". Aliexpress does not release the funds to them until I receive the item and I confirm it's ok.



[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1482943323' post='3203666']
However there is no reason for you not to get a good instrument from China at the end of the day; it just simply isn't the same as getting a British luthier to build a custom bass at a fraction of the cost.
[/quote]

Absolutely. Nobody suggested otherwise. There's a reason why I have an active order with Maruszczyk right now and I didn't think of going to Aliexpress for that one: I wanted a *good* serious instrument on that one. I also paid quite a bit more (although I still think it's a steal, those guys make superb instruments).

There are many reasons you may buy say a VM Squier bass. Usually you don't buy it because it's the best you can buy. You buy it because for whatever reason you don't want to spend more than X and you are happy with the quality of that instrument even if it's not the best. However the selection is limited. If all you want is a Jazz or a Precision and you like the available colours, you're in luck. What if you would like a budget instrument in another configuration, colour, whatever? Well, if you're one of these people who enjoy taking instruments apart and doing work on them, some sellers in Aliexpress may just give you that possibility. That's my approach, anyway. I could be wrong! Time will tell.

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[quote name='blablas' timestamp='1482948475' post='3203713']
The sellers store name was louyuan yan, but his store is not active anymore.
[/quote]

thank you.

I chose my seller based on the feedback and reviews. The only one thing that made me a bit nervous was that there were a couple of reports of damage in transit... but the seller seemed to act quite fast to correct the issue either through replacement or repair/parts... we'll see

Edited by mcnach
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[quote name='blablas' timestamp='1482937630' post='3203624']
Something like this?

Been there - done that. ;)
However I needed to do some work on it before it was a player.
- Aligned the pickups to the strings, the bridge pu was moved over by 3 millimeters, the neck pu by 1 millimeter.
- Due to the moving of the pickups I also had to move the pickguard.
- Reshaped the nut, they just put on a right handed one so this needed to be seriously modified.
- Gave the tuner bushings a few knocks on their head, they were mounted crooked.
- The fingerboard had several less good looking and finished spots, re-finished these.
- Crowned the frets where needed and polished them, they were level but rough finished in a lot spots. I just can't and won't cope with this reversed crap!
- Done a full shielding of the controls cavity, there was none whatsoever.
- Made a thumb rest.
- Made a new truss rod cover.
- Replaced the strap holders, what was on there was mounted with very thin and short screws, to leave those would have been waiting for an accident to happen.
- Checked if all the screws and bolts were tightened and if they weren't tightened them (more often than not they were loose!).
- Did a full and thorough setup.

Rebuild diary can be found [url="http://theharleybentonclub.proboards.com/thread/669/lefty-rickenfaker-4005-aliexpress"]here[/url].
[/quote]


Very interesting. Thanks for that.

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Blablas, I had seen your post before in the Rick section and was thinking of PMing you but as you've posted here, what is the size of the body like? Is it a large as a real Rick or as is sometimes the case with these things, is it scaled down at all? I don't want it to look small.
I'm glad you posted as I respect your opinion as a quality builder.
I totally understand that at worst I will only get a Rick shaped piece of wood but as long as the dimensions are right then I'm happy with that, anything else fitting/working is a bonus.


Sorry to hijack the thread a little bit mcnach.

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As I said, I didn't want a Fender logo or anything like it, but I didn't want an empty headstock so I had to come up with something.

I'm no graphic designer and my ability is very limited, so I just made something very simple and sent it away:




At least it indicates its provenance, and what it tries to be :)
Not the prettiest logo but it'll do.

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[quote name='Cato' timestamp='1483120231' post='3204882']
The P-Sting?

Sounds a bit like an STD.
[/quote]

I hate you! :angry:
Now I can't 'unsee' that... :lol:

I was going to go with P-Ray but I didn't want it to be mistaken with a religious message.

I'll do my best to forget what you said... but the bass is already ruined for me :P

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[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1483122645' post='3204902']


I hate you! :angry:
Now I can't 'unsee' that... :lol:

I was going to go with P-Ray but I didn't want it to be mistaken with a religious message.

I'll do my best to forget what you said... but the bass is already ruined for me :P
[/quote]

Sorry about that.

I did wonder if I should mention it, but I have very poor impulse control.

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I had a Rick (4003 copy?) bass briefly - I took it in trade, and hadn't intended on keeping it, I just wanted to see what it was like. in terms of playability and general construction quality. I have to say that for such a cheap price, the Chinese Rick copy was a really good bass!

It looked roughly like the real thing, in terms of shape - though the body had some contouring that isn't present on a real Rick. Though actually, the edges are more rounded on the copy, and the contours of the body actually make the bass "sit" more comfortably, and I found it quite nice in that respect. The neck was rather more wide than the real thing, but not quite so deep - so I actually quite liked it, and got used to the extra width of the neck quite quickly...

The sound was, well, maybe just a bit Rick-like. The pickups are obviously very different from their real counterparts, and the wiring was very odd. There were some suggestions at re-wiring on the Facebook fakers group, and I thought about doing that fairly simple mod, but in the end, didn't get round to it. I actually quite liked the sound from the bridge pickup - it surprised me just how good that pickup could sound. As I say, it wasn't quite like the "real thing", but it was a sound I quite liked.

Overall, and given the original price of the bass, I thought the quality was really very good! That said, I've heard a few horror stories about instruments from that same source - none of them first-hand mind you - just via forums and youtube
EDIT: Of course, I had picked up the bass in trade - but the original owner had said he hadn't needed to tweak anything much - just a bit of a truss rod / bridge saddle adjustment. i.e. he hadn't needed to fettle the frets or anything - these were nice & smooth..

Re an earlier comment about Chinese QC - yes, early Japan instruments were often falsely accused of poor quality and often derided by musicians, but I think the same is now true of some China made equipment. At risk of repeating myself (again lol) I have owned 2 Squier Classic Vibe basses, and have played a few other Classic Vibe guitars - the quality and consistency of the China made Classic Vibe instruments is absolutely superb! The same appears to be the case with the Squier "Matt Freeman" sig P bass. So China is already making superb instruments, without QC issues.... well, in at least one factory anyway...

Edited by Marc S
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Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you guys, but I don't think this is going to happen.

The seller has not got back to me about the last enquiry, other than a "ok, I'll check". It's been about 10 days now. I'm not feeling inclined to pursue this if they can't be bothered as it wasn't anything I was desperate about and it's not like I'm short of ideas as to where I could spend money instead ;) So unless I receive an email by the weekend, that will be it.

I had a quick go with a Yamaha TRBX 505... it is not a maple fingerboard and I'm not in love with the pickup configuration, but that thing felt really nice and sounded very good with the band (mostly reggae), and it's only about £300 in the second hand market. So the experiment idea is looking less interesting right now.


edit 17/1/17: they stalled at the last minute, and I don't want the bass THAT bad to want to be chasing them after I made clear that my credit card was out of my wallet ready to be used. So I'm keeping my money and I will not proceed with this.

Edited by mcnach
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[url="https://www.facebook.com/AlanGeorgeGuitars/"]https://www.facebook...nGeorgeGuitars/[/url]

This guy seems to batch order guitars from a Chinese factory. Might be worth seeing if he can satisfy your 5 string itch?

Jazz type [url="https://www.facebook.com/AlanGeorgeGuitars/photos/a.810800285725980.1073741860.202825416523473/810800499059292/?type=3&theater"]https://www.facebook...?type=3[/url]

"Super strat" type 5er
[url="http://aggmusic.co.uk/product.php?i=130"]http://aggmusic.co.u...oduct.php?i=130[/url]

On the other hand Yamaha's are very good too...

Edited by BassApprentice
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[quote name='BassApprentice' timestamp='1484059757' post='3212297']
[url="https://www.facebook.com/AlanGeorgeGuitars/"]https://www.facebook...nGeorgeGuitars/[/url]

This guy seems to batch order guitars from a Chinese factory. Might be worth seeing if he can satisfy your 5 string itch?

Jazz type [url="https://www.facebook.com/AlanGeorgeGuitars/photos/a.810800285725980.1073741860.202825416523473/810800499059292/?type=3&theater"]https://www.facebook...?type=3[/url]

"Super strat" type 5er
[url="http://aggmusic.co.uk/product.php?i=130"]http://aggmusic.co.u...oduct.php?i=130[/url]

On the other Yamaha's are very good too...
[/quote]


Thanks for the link. I was mostly interested in the customisation aspect (at low cost), as a curiosity. If my original idea doesn't go forward and I still want a 5 string I'll probably get a TRBX 505 at some point... or a stock Maruszczyk.

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