Support bands and bad sound.

[LewisK1975]

[quote name='uk_lefty' timestamp='1481549409' post='3193136']
Surely if the support act sounds good more people will want to stay for the main act? Otherwise just put an iPod on shuffle until the main band goes on, why screw someone over who is there to provide a good chunk of the entertainment. I can accept when its a festival and the sound guys are dealing with a conveyer belt of different bands they will do their best without fine tuning but to get the support act right then screw them to make the main band sound better is b.s.
[/quote]

All this is of course true, but lets not forget, from the dog and duck, through to Madison Square Garden, music events are peppered with insecure, egotistical musicians, who live in fear of being upstaged and will go to many lengths to ensure they are not..YMMV!

[Low End Bee]

Whenever I've been in a supporting band it always seems to go 1 of 2 ways.

1. The headliners are complete gents and are checked in very little time leaving you enough for a decent go yourselves resulting in a good on and off stage mix for both bands.

2. The headliners turn up late. They spend hours on one of the toms as 'it's alway too boomy' doing .5mm turns on the adjuster after they've spent ten minutes looking for the key in the drummers bag. They decide to do a complete valve swap on stage on some old guitar amp that's ready for the scrap yard. They play one song 14 times to get the level of the stylophone right (they don't end up playing this on the night as they change the set at the last minute), The singer wanders aimlessly around the stage on his phone telling the soundman the guitarist is 'Nearly her, literally just around the corner. Just needs to find somewhere to park' None of the band go and help him unload his gear letting him do 3 trips from the car park solo that's about half a mile away.
You then get a sub 2 minute line check and hope for the best and end up sounding like your playing through a tin can and foam filter.

Band 1 have been around the block and are normally quite well known.

Band 2 think they have and normally aren't.

[Norm]

Have supported name touring acts a few times & have had a proper sound check with full monitors & reasonable room on stage on some occasions & a last minute line check with no room (not allowed to move anything) no monitors at all on others depends who you are supporting. Soundpeople have always done their best under the circumstances & we were always professional & got on with it despite the difficulties imposed. No moaning or the soundpeople lose sympathy very quickly. Some headliners were unaware there a support band & others were very friendly & approachable.
Every gig was different & we always did our best to put on a show.
But yes, welcome to the music industry, you know exactly what rung of the ladder you are on!

[Lozz196]

We`ve supported a good few named bands, and I actually like the ones who spend forever sound-checking, as once it`s our turn the on-stage sound is usually superb. They`ve done all the work and we benefit - plus invariably it`s a band I like so I get to hear them playing a lot as well. I still liaise with the sound-person as well though.

[LewisK1975]

[quote name='Norm' timestamp='1481557603' post='3193261']
Have supported name touring acts a few times & have had a proper sound check with full monitors & reasonable room on stage on some occasions & a last minute line check with no room (not allowed to move anything) no monitors at all on others depends who you are supporting. Soundpeople have always done their best under the circumstances & we were always professional & got on with it despite the difficulties imposed. No moaning or the soundpeople lose sympathy very quickly. Some headliners were unaware there a support band & others were very friendly & approachable.
Every gig was different & we always did our best to put on a show.
But yes, welcome to the music industry, you know exactly what rung of the ladder you are on!
[/quote]

Here speaks the voice of experience, gents. This should be the last post on this thread, it contains everything you need to know. But it's not, because this post is.

[Norm]

Lozz's post earlier summed it up, be professional be prepared, be polite & helpful & then hopefully with the sound & lighting people on your side, you have a better chance of sounding & looking good out front!

[Norm]

For me the buzz of a big stage/lights/pa/crowd outweighs any potential pitfalls of the support gig.
As Lozz said it has sometimes been with bands I like so its great to see them soudcheck see how they work. Winning over a few of somebody else's fans, even if just one, is pretty cool. Mind you I like the setting up/ tearing down stuff too, yeah sad I know!

[Bassman Sam]

[quote name='DaytonaRik' timestamp='1481537802' post='3192960']
This made me chuckle so much - we were forced to cancel a series of gigs at LHL's insistence at a venue. Sadly, the venue had forgotten this completely and accused us of acting unprofessionally by informing them on the day were were not actually playing on Saturday night. Much mud slinging across social media until our guitarist suggested he post the email the venue sent him...at which point their posts were removed.

Karma - don't you love it! I owe that sound engineer a beer or two!
[/quote]

[Bassman Sam]

I did a number of gigs supporting a Queen tribute band back in the 90's. They were a total nightmare at sound checks and stitched us up a the last gig we did together. Our sound was terrible and they wanted to charge us 70 quid for their sound man.. We off loaded our gear at the interval and got it out of the venue via a fire door. While they were on stage, we ran up a 350 quid bar bill, saying that they would settle it as they had the control of the money then we legged it. We had already been paid by them.

[blue]

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1481532824' post='3192898']


Trouble is, most bands don't have the luxury of a soundman of their own, or an extra guy to help with sound advice I firmly believe vocals should be the loudest thing as it's the most important to the song. Bass drum close second, then everything else in balance under these.
[/quote]

We have a dedicated sound guy, however when we play the larger festivals with big sound it's all union workers and they won't let our guy do anything

Blue

[gba1968]

Always a shame if the sound isn't right

Here's some feedback on that gig from LL social media:-

‎Donald Reid‎ to Limehouse Lizzy
1 hr ·
[i][b]Great show in Warrington and a big thanks to Gaz, your sound man who was really great chatting to my gear-geek teenage sons and then took the time to grab them some goodies and introduce them to Tim. It made our evening - what a top man.[/b][/i]

‎Dennis Mahoney‎ to Limehouse Lizzy
21 hrs ·
[i][b]Saw limehouse lizzy on Warrington last night. You are mega. Please come back soon and do a full session. You were awesome last night. Love you guys. And I'm an ac/dc fan but I love lizzy too. Merry Christmas guys.[/b][/i]
.
Yesterday at 11:51 · Oswestry ·
[b][i]Really enjoyed the show in Warrington last night .. superb.. will definitely be coming to see you play again thanks for the drumstick too [/i][/b]

Yesterday at 00:36 ·
[i][b]it was a brilliant night in Warrington 2 great bands in one show!![/b][/i]

Tony Barry ‏@tonybarry63 52m52 minutes ago
[b][i]@limehouselizzy Saturday at the Parr Hall. What a show! Superb band, should be playing at far bigger venues![/i][/b]

Gary Skentelbery ‏@GarySkent Dec 11
[i][b]Thank you @limehouselizzy for my trip down memory lane to my first ever gig #ThinLizzy #LiverpoolEmpire May 1979 #BlackRose tour #GaryMoore[/b][/i]

Ramon G ‏@razzjones Dec 11
[b][i]@limehouselizzy wow! Blown away by your show last night in Warrington! Brilliant. Well done. See you at your next north west show![/i][/b]

Ramon G ‏@razzjones Dec 11
[i][b]@PyramidParrHall OMG! Another superb rock show with @limehouselizzy @LIVEWIREACDC the place was seriously rocking! Brilliant performances![/b][/i]

Alison Warburton ‏@Aliwarbo Dec 10
[i][b]Great night of classic rock with @limehouselizzy and livewire at @PyramidParrHall[/b][/i]

‏@FirebladeRR6 Dec 11
Kitch Retweeted Gary Skentelbery
[i][b]Wayne you guys smashed it last night! @limehouselizzy[/b][/i]

Gary Skentelbery @GarySkent
[i][b]Fantastic night of #classicrock @PyramidParrHall taking me back in time with tributes to two of the greatest rock bands! #ACDC #ThinLizzy [/b][/i]

[Bassman Sam]

[quote name='gba1968' timestamp='1481575208' post='3193444']
Always a shame if the sound isn't right

Here's some feedback on that gig from LL social media:-

‎Donald Reid‎ to Limehouse Lizzy
1 hr ·
[i][b]Great show in Warrington and a big thanks to Gaz, your sound man who was really great chatting to my gear-geek teenage sons and then took the time to grab them some goodies and introduce them to Tim. It made our evening - what a top man.[/b][/i]

‎Dennis Mahoney‎ to Limehouse Lizzy
21 hrs ·
[i][b]Saw limehouse lizzy on Warrington last night. You are mega. Please come back soon and do a full session. You were awesome last night. Love you guys. And I'm an ac/dc fan but I love lizzy too. Merry Christmas guys.[/b][/i]
.
Yesterday at 11:51 · Oswestry ·
[b][i]Really enjoyed the show in Warrington last night .. superb.. will definitely be coming to see you play again ���� thanks for the drumstick too ��[/i][/b]

Yesterday at 00:36 ·
[i][b]it was a brilliant night in Warrington 2 great bands in one show!![/b][/i]

Tony Barry ‏@tonybarry63 52m52 minutes ago
[b][i]@limehouselizzy Saturday at the Parr Hall. What a show! Superb band, should be playing at far bigger venues![/i][/b]

Gary Skentelbery ‏@GarySkent Dec 11
[i][b]Thank you @limehouselizzy for my trip down memory lane to my first ever gig #ThinLizzy #LiverpoolEmpire May 1979 #BlackRose tour #GaryMoore[/b][/i]

Ramon G ‏@razzjones Dec 11
[b][i]@limehouselizzy wow! Blown away by your show last night in Warrington! Brilliant. Well done. See you at your next north west show![/i][/b]

Ramon G ‏@razzjones Dec 11
[i][b]@PyramidParrHall OMG! Another superb rock show with @limehouselizzy @LIVEWIREACDC the place was seriously rocking! Brilliant performances![/b][/i]

Alison Warburton ‏@Aliwarbo Dec 10
[i][b]Great night of classic rock with @limehouselizzy and livewire at @PyramidParrHall[/b][/i]

‏@FirebladeRR6 Dec 11
Kitch Retweeted Gary Skentelbery
[i][b]Wayne you guys smashed it last night! @limehouselizzy[/b][/i]

Gary Skentelbery @GarySkent
[i][b]Fantastic night of #classicrock @PyramidParrHall taking me back in time with tributes to two of the greatest rock bands! #ACDC #ThinLizzy �� [/b][/i]
[/quote]

Lizzy put on a great show, it was the sound that was crap. I wonder if there is a difference between what a punter will put up with after a few pints and what a player hears?

[KingBollock]

I worked in a guitar shop in the (very) late eighties that had a very varied customer base, and there was always talk of support bands being stitched up by the headliners. It was just taken as being normal.

Normally if a customer had been talking bollocks and was just bitter about something, someone in the shop would have piped up once the customer had left, but with the stitching up, everyone had experienced it themselves.

[Number6]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1481493570' post='3192735']


My local venue used to be The Torrington in Finchley. Fairly decent PA there and most bands used the house sound guy.

Piss him off or treat him badly and he'd make you sound absolute sh*t.

I saw a guitarist give him stick in a very uncompromising and public way once because he was struggling with his monitor volume.

Sound guy sorted him in the monitors, then pulled him out of the front of house mix completely. . .
[/quote]

Aah the Torrington. Saw the Hamsters there a few times. Dumpys Rusty Nuts aswell i seem to remember.

[KingBollock]

[quote name='Number6' timestamp='1481579768' post='3193506']


Aah the Torrington. Saw the Hamsters there a few times. Dumpys Rusty Nuts aswell i seem to remember.
[/quote]
I was trying to remember some of the bands that used to get mentioned a lot, and the only one I could remember as being particularly notorious was Dumpys Rusty Nuts.

[bazzbass]

par for the course.

the main band bring the sound system and soundguy. They work for them not you.

Usually they'll tape up all their channels leaving the support a few channels to use.

and yeah, if you want good sound, buy the soundguy some drinks or slip him some cash.

[Paul S]

[quote name='Bassman Sam' timestamp='1481564008' post='3193327']
While they were on stage, we ran up a 350 quid bar bill, saying that they would settle it as they had the control of the money then we legged it. We had already been paid by them.
[/quote]

That is pretty shabby behaviour in my book. Criminal behaviour, in fact - I mean that literally as you were lucky not to get nicked over it. Shows we all have a different moral compass, I guess, if you are boasting about it on the internet.

[DaytonaRik]

[quote name='Bassman Sam' timestamp='1481575873' post='3193453']
Lizzy put on a great show, it was the sound that was crap. I wonder if there is a difference between what a punter will put up with after a few pints and what a player hears?
[/quote]

I am, and always will, remain convinced that in their heads the average punter hears a pristine recording from their younger days, and NOT what is actually present in their ears!

[PaulWarning]

went to the Butlins Punk weekend this year and the difference between the main acts and supports was startling, in from the Jam had a suburb sound next band on was the Sex Pissed Dolls, bloody awful overly loud bass drum and muddy loads of echo/reverb, felt sorry for them people were walking out saying how crap they were, I put it down to the main acts had their own sound men, the rest were using Butlins in house sound guys who clearly didn't know what they were doing

[Lozz196]

Was that the one in Skegness at start of October, Paul? If so we played there on the Friday (we were on the Introducing Stage, and won the competition entry to the Main Stage next year).

[radiophonic]

This is all part of a wider pattern that I file under 'some people are just dicks'. Giving the support band a raw deal doesn't help you - the audience will be far more up for it if all the bands are worth listening to. It doesn't help the venue either. Happy punters will consume more beer surely? Even if you piss the venue's sound-guy off, deliberately sabotaging your sound is completely unprofessional. You are both trying to work and if you have poor monitor sound it is his job to fix that problem. We all have to deal with frayed tempers at work and 'prima donna guitarist' is hardly front page news. See also: charging bands to use the house PA but not letting them bring their own (superior) one; telling out of town bands there are cabs at the venue they can use and then relying on other bands on the bill to provide them; refusing to DI the bass even though there are enough channels on the desk (because there are several bands and you can't be bothered) or telling the band in advance that a suitable desk is available and then just shrugging when there aren't enough channels (even though we offered to bring our own). We use our own sound guy whenever possible.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1481618965' post='3193684']
Was that the one in Skegness at start of October, Paul? If so we played there on the Friday (we were on the Introducing Stage, and won the competition entry to the Main Stage next year).
[/quote]yes, I don't remember seeing you, but I could have done, the sound on the introductory stage was very mixed as well, first day my mate went up to the fat controller (you had to be there) and asked him if he thought the guitar was loud enough, he said yes but turned it up anyway, again overly loud bass drum and muddy sound but some bands were better than others, guess it's down to how well you play as well, we've booked again for next year and applied to play as well, a bit of interest after seeing our vids but not heard anything further, fingers crossed

[Guest Jecklin]

Apologies, I haven't read through the whole thread, but this was standard practice when I was playing in conventional rock settings.

The sound engineer would always have more subs for the main act and put the balance oout of the support.

I'm thankful I no longer occupy performance situations like this.

The last time I witnessed this was a few years ago at Alexandra Palace to see the yeah yeah yeahs. It was if they were playing through a different PA in a different venue.
Completely counter productive as the entire crowd was very visibly fatigued by the abismal sound for all the previous acts and took a long time to warm up to the main act.

[rogerstodge]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1481615269' post='3193648']


That is pretty shabby behaviour in my book. Criminal behaviour, in fact - I mean that literally as you were lucky not to get nicked over it. Shows we all have a different moral compass, I guess, if you are boasting about it on the internet.
[/quote]
I'd of done the same thing

[ivansc]

Makes a difference if you are the TOUR support band rather than the "one night" support act in my experience.

Probably because the PA guy knows he is going to see you every damn night of the tour.... cuts both ways, you still have to be nice!