therealting Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Hello folks, I'd been looking at getting a high quality replica of a pre-CBS Precision, and the opportunity has come up to purchase a fine example of a '61. It has been refinished (sympathetically and authentically and to an exceptional standard, but still a refin), and has had a refret and a new pickup and pots installed. Case, hardware, strap, covers all original. It will cost about double what the reproduction does... but it is an original 61 P. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBass Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) [quote name='therealting' timestamp='1480417418' post='3184145'] Hello folks, I'd been looking at getting a high quality replica of a pre-CBS Precision, and the opportunity has come up to purchase a fine example of a '61. [b]It has been refinished (sympathetically and authentically and to an exceptional standard, but still a refin), and has had a refret and a new pickup and pots installed.[/b] Case, hardware, strap, covers all original. It will cost about double what the reproduction does... but it is an original 61 P. Thoughts? [/quote] That is quite a lot of work/changes for 'original' to still be used to describe the bass! Out of interest, what pickups and pots have been used? Is the original cap still in the loom or is there also a new loom? Personally I'd go for the reproduction, or hang on and find a better, and more complete pre-CBS P. Edited November 29, 2016 by JamesBass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealting Posted November 29, 2016 Author Share Posted November 29, 2016 Yeah that's the thing, but it is priced with that in mind. It's a handwound Bareknuckle, with CTS solid shafts and an old cap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Precisions are funny things. They're currently less popular than Jazzes, and more of them were made of course. I purchased a 63' all original and in great condition for £4200 this time last year, and that was from a dealer. If I were buying it for investment value, I'd make sure to buy an original bass. If it's to play, or for recording etc. then it doesn't matter. I use a 73' Jazz which has a replaced set of pickups and pots which gives me the oomph I need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 If it's a really nice bass then I'd buy it because it sounds great and is wonderful to play. I wouldn't pay a high price for a refin with replacement pickup and pots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiliwailer Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I presume it ain't cheap? As a friend of mine in the trade once said about refins "so, you're paying £3000 for a neck". I'd argue that if the pickup is original then he's not quite right, but without the original pickup or finish he's closer to right than wrong. And as Clive Brown once said to me "it's not like the old wood was made by pixies and faries, wood is wood". I'm not saying he's right or wrong, but I did find it quite funny. As a flip side, of the many pre CBS Fenders I've played, I always prefered the late 50's to 61 ones, could all be in my head but I've played a lot and I always prefered those. Even with a refin some guys are left feeling like they haven't got the complete package and they aim for an original. Without the pickup that may double. Personally I went from refins, to original and then back to modern basses and I'm glad I did it, so the vintage thing is worth a punt as you may well stick with it, or end up at least having fun expericeing it. But that bass you described may be just a 'nearly' bass. Good luck deciding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlfer Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Find an American Vintage 57, in my limited experience some of the finest basses to leave America. Not the investment potential of a pre CBS but unlikely to lose money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Sounds like you're just getting the wood, a plate and the tuners - I'd want the pickup too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBass Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 [quote name='therealting' timestamp='1480418339' post='3184154'] Yeah that's the thing, but it is priced with that in mind. It's a handwound Bareknuckle, with CTS solid shafts and an old cap [/quote] You're paying essentially for the fact the wood is old and that there's a perceived perception of the quality of old Fenders. There are MANY luthiers and pickup winders that make exceptionally good reproductions of vintage instruments, and at a better and more affordable price point. You are also less likely to be precious about replacing bits should you need to. I do get the allure of a vintage instrument, the best ever precision bass I've ever played was a 100% original 66 P Bass. The bridge foam was still in the bridge cover, the neck was sublime, the pick ups were clear, loud, and articulate, all in all it was amazing, that is till I found out the price. £6K. I have since spoken to many luthiers and other bass players and all agree you can get that vintage vibe and tone from a new build with modern ergonomics. The choice is ultimately yours though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealting Posted November 29, 2016 Author Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) Yeah I'm really torn. It was restored by one of the finest in the business (I own one of his replicas and it is indistinguishable from the real thing other that two deliberate differentiators), and the asking price is under £4k Edited November 29, 2016 by therealting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebassist Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 How much under £4k? Sounds a little expensive to me if it is anything over £3k. But it's all relative, subjective and personal of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luulox Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Relic for me, only half the other sounds pre cbs to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 maybe see if Rick's Fine '52 will give his tuppence - he's got a fine collection of very old fenders - and has made and commissioned his own replicas of them too. Me I would go for the cheaper replica... why? cos i'm not sure 3k of vintage fender would be good for throwing around a gig - whereas a bravewood or similar wouldn't be more relaxing to play! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattmit Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 I think just find any p bass that really feels and sounds great to you then find someone who does a relic job that looks great to you. I think joe whites looks authentic www.jwhite-guitarworkshops.co.uk/images/GuitarAgeingPics/20130721_152913.jpg I remember seeing some others around just as impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Have you looked into the Moollon classic series? Excellent pre-CBS replicas made to order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lw. Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Hmm - 4k seems toppy to me for a refin with new electrics, but if you've got the cash & love the sound/feel of the bass then why not I suppose. Personally I'd go for a cheaper relic or wait for a better example of a vintage bass to surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 So a refinish (assuming it's just a body refine) should command around half of the full market value. If it's a neck and headstock refin as well, even less. So an £8k 1963 is pretty top money for an all original, I would certainly expect a refin with non-original pickup to go for closer to £3k, maybe even late 2ks if there's other stuff missing. If you want a cool (but expensive project), then get the '63, then find and buy the period correct parts over the coming years, you might end up spending £800 on a pickup, but it will eventually give you an all original '63 (minus the finish of course), you'll certainly learn a lot about vintage Fenders along the way. However, if it doesn't sound or feel perfect for you now, and a relic does, then get the bass that is going to inspire you to play and make you and the band sound the best it can! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyR Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Owning vintage basses is in my experience a very rewarding thing to do. My recommendation would be to save a little more and buy an all-original example. Refrets or minor hardware changes are not the end of the world, but if the body or neck are refinished, however many original parts you source to stick on it, it is still fundamentally undesirable to most vintage buyers. I have three pre cbs jazz basses, all original. I am just about to buy a refin pre cbs strat - mainly because I will never be able to justify to the chancellor £10k+ for a fully original one, when it is not my main instrument. To me, the only reasons to buy a refin Fender bass are that it's either so cheap it would be rude not to, or that you'll never be in a position to by one with the original finish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 If you are umming and ahing about the value then everyone who would buy it from you later on will be as well. It is there, but not there. Bravewood will make you one. I had an original 66 Jazz and a Bravewood 63 P. They both scratched exaxtly the same itch for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Get an American Vintage Reissue - used if you can find one. The finish will soon pick up dings, and you'll have the best of both worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 [quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1480784851' post='3187144'] Get an American Vintage Reissue - used if you can find one. The finish will soon pick up dings, and you'll have the best of both worlds. [/quote]+1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealting Posted December 4, 2016 Author Share Posted December 4, 2016 Thanks guys - think I'm going to get a Bravewood instead... could even get two for the price! (: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Obviously we will need pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I think what's telling about Bravewood - is that give or take one exception - you never hear anything but good things about them. And people hold onto them, they're not that regularly available for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealting Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 Trigger pulled. More info here - https://instagram.com/p/BN1jM-nBEX5/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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