2 ARTICLES IN THE SPECTATOR

[grandad]

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/07/copyright-the-great-rocknroll-swindle/

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/07/ringos-no-joke-he-was-a-genius-and-the-beatles-were-lucky-to-have-him/

[ahpook]

Can't argue with you there.

[CokeyW]

Excellent stuff.

[spectoremg]

Lennon/McCartney/Starkey? 😀

[chris_b]

As I said in the other post, on his own or with help (doesn't matter) Ringo changed drumming.

Before him there was rhythm drums. Accents on 2 and 4 (Earl Palmer's contribution and drum world game changer) and variations around that. Even the likes of Sandy Nelson and his drum solo records were basically rhythm drums.

Ringo changed drums up to also take a lead role. But for his Tomorrow Never Knows, A Day in The Life, Come Together etc etc drum patterns I don't think there would have been the likes of Steve Gadd's 50 Ways drum pattern and the rest. Ringo showed the way for all the creative drummers who came after.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1473925213' post='3134099']
As I said in the other post, on his own or with help (doesn't matter) Ringo changed drumming...
[/quote]

In the Pop world, maybe, and far be it for me to denigrate Ringo, but here were many movements in the drumming world, evolving the role of the instrument and its techniques. Greats such as Joe Morello, Art Blakey, Jo Jones... The list is long. All was not '2 and 4', by any means, in other quarters. Leaving aside Buddy Rich's extreme offerings, Gene Krupa had a lot more going on than merely 'rhythm drums'. Big band was a huge vehicle for expression in percussion, and jazz trios needed more than just a back-fill to keep the music creative.
All credit to Ringo for his achievements, but there were many others innovating at the time, ignorant of his impact, I'd say.

[chris_b]

You mention some great drummers, but they didn't change the [i]concept [/i]of drumming.

I saw him play in Brussels in 1969 and he lit up the room, but what was different after or because of Jo Jones?

[Rich]

You are 'blue' and I claim my five pounds.

[wateroftyne]

Can't argue with either of those. Ringo's a great drummer. History should instead be questioning George's ability as a guitarist.

[Happy Jack]

That guy who stood in on bass when Paul died was pretty good though.

[Marvin]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1473936151' post='3134272']
Can't argue with either of those. Ringo's a great drummer. History should instead be questioning George's ability as a guitarist.
[/quote]

You'll find plenty of people who'll say he was a truly gifted guitarist and changed the face of music

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1473937002' post='3134277']
You'll find plenty of people who'll say he was a truly gifted guitarist and changed the face of music
[/quote]

True, but my God... he was so half-arsed much of the time.

[ivansc]

(cue debate about Baker vs Jones drum "battle".....*sigh*)

[Cato]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1473936151' post='3134272']
Can't argue with either of those. Ringo's a great drummer. History should instead be questioning George's ability as a guitarist.
[/quote]

My ex's dad played in a Liverpool band called 'Them Grimbles' who played the same scene and occasionally on the same bill as The Beatles.

He didn't know any of them that well but he reckons that George was the one that other bands were constantly trying to poach. Apparently from his early teens he was well known for being able to play pretty much anything after a couple of listens.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Cato

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Cato' timestamp='1473941779' post='3134323']
My ex's dad played in a Liverpool band called 'Them Grimbles' who played the same scene and occasionally on the same bill as The Beatles.

He didn't know any of them that well but he reckons that George was the one that other bands were constantly trying to poach. Apparently from his early teens he was well known for being able to play pretty much anything after a couple of listens.
[/quote]

When I think of Ringo, Paul and John, I think of three lads / blokes who lived for music, who probably wouldn't want to do anything else.

When I think of George, I think of someone who can play a bit who stuck with it 'cos his pals played too.

(Guitar SKILLZ I'm talking about - not his role as a writer or general visionary)

[chris_b]

After Wings had been going for a few years McCartney was asked why he wrote better songs in the Beatles. He said, you had to make sure you'd written the very best song you could before you played it to John Lennon, because you knew what sort of reception you'd get if you didn't.

I think George took a back seat because he wasn't enough of a fighter to battle the other two, especially Lennon.

[KevB]

Back to Ringo, I found it interesting in interviews where he says a lot of his style is quite accidental as a result of being left handed and made to play a right handed set up kit so often not quite in 'correct' place at the 'correct' time and putting in fills to cover it, also all the 'playing off the shoulder' stuff.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1473943499' post='3134343']
I think George took a back seat because he wasn't enough of a fighter to battle the other two, especially Lennon.
[/quote]

From a guitar POV, he just struck me as lazy, or possibly someone with crushed confidence...

[Marvin]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1473937194' post='3134278']


True, but my God... he was so half-arsed much of the time.
[/quote]

We must thank him for creating indie music then.

[chris_b]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1473943597' post='3134346']
. . . . or possibly someone with crushed confidence...
[/quote]
That's my point.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1473943934' post='3134355']
That's my point.
[/quote]

Yeah.. I think there were great swathes of time where he'd rather be off doing the garden.

[bassace]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1473925213' post='3134099']
As I said in the other post, on his own or with help (doesn't matter) Ringo changed drumming.

Before him there was rhythm drums. Accents on 2 and 4 (Earl Palmer's contribution and drum world game changer) and variations around that. Even the likes of Sandy Nelson and his drum solo records were basically rhythm drums.

Ringo changed drums up to also take a lead role. But for his Tomorrow Never Knows, A Day in The Life, Come Together etc etc drum patterns I don't think there would have been the likes of Steve Gadd's 50 Ways drum pattern and the rest. Ringo showed the way for all the creative drummers who came after.
[/quote]

And some say the world is flat.

Edited September 15, 2016 by bassace

[grandad]

To my ears Ringo's style was measured and economical which is an approach I adopt to playing bass where I try to sit in the mix rather than cut through, only noticed if you're not there.