That Victor Wooten bloke, he's rubbish, he is. There, I said it!

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='funkgod' timestamp='1472088838' post='3118455']
...and the knocking will be tighter than a gnats chuff.
[/quote]

Sounds like a dodgy Thai brothel just after opening time.

[oldbass]

And not forgetting the family..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukVhTzcW3Uc

Now that I like very much indeed, but his solo stuff..not so sure. I've often wondered what a Jamerson solo would be like...is there any (record) of him doing one....would make a nice comparison to VW. Both exceptional musicians.

[RhysP]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1471899740' post='3116867']
I'm an odd bassist in that I'm not into funk or groove .
[/quote]

I'm exactly the same.

[Sibob]

Funk I get, it's a genre....but not into groove? That seems odd, because surely groove is present in all music?!
Punk music without groove is just really crap, out of time medicore punk music for example?!

Si

[ambient]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1472129947' post='3118742']
Funk I get, it's a genre....but not into groove? That seems odd, because surely groove is present in all music?!
Punk music without groove is just really crap, out of time medicore punk music for example?!

Si
[/quote]

I rarely listen to anything with a regular rhythm section. The occasional jazz record maybe.

[Sibob]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1472130331' post='3118745']
I rarely listen to anything with a regular rhythm section. The occasional jazz record maybe.
[/quote]

Fair enough, I guess pure ambient soundscape stuff is the exception to the rule

Si

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1472129947' post='3118742']
Funk I get, it's a genre....but not into groove? That seems odd, because surely groove is present in all music?!
[/quote]

Not according to Deee-Lite and therefore the groove meister himself - Bootsy Collins:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etviGf1uWlg

[RhysP]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1472129947' post='3118742']
Funk I get, it's a genre....but not into groove? That seems odd, because surely groove is present in all music?!
Punk music without groove is just really crap, out of time medicore punk music for example?!

Si
[/quote]

I would say there is quite a lot of music that is not groove based, classical music, much prog rock, electronic music or folk music for example.
I know that I don't like most music that people talk about when referring to "groove" playing - Soul, R'n'B, disco, funk. that sort of stuff.

Edited August 25, 2016 by RhysP

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1472023545' post='3117679']
That's very well put and I understand your musical reasons.
I am totally the complete opposite. My ears like hearing solos from (any Instrument).
I like complex arrangements and structures. Just something that has happened to me as I have got older.
But then again my musical tastes are very, very broad from simple, to complete over the top Orchestral and Jazz offerings.

For me, he has great, melodic, lyrical quality in his playing, not to mention his good timing and groove.
But then, that's just my opinion of course.

Nothing wrong (and certainly not rubbish) with his playing on this. There is more to Vic than show boating.
I love hearing players solo and on this they all do it well.

[media]http://youtu.be/sx5Qd6uEWq8[/media]
[/quote]

That's totally cool with me; as has been said many times on this Forum, it'd be boring if we all liked the same music and same musicians..

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1472027458' post='3117727']
The other point that Nick raises above, about how he views the bass guitar is interesting. Fundamentally this is really odd to me. Bass guitar is simply an instrument, the role it plays is determined by the music and the player. I imagine that there are many many instruments that, during their infancy, were simply for accompaniment, and weren't considered solo instruments. But as the players who choose that instrument develop the voice of the instrument, it's invariably going to grow into something more.
So again, my expectation of the bass guitar is not to just play the bass line, it's just a tool to make music. Perhaps my expectation of a certain player in a certain musical context is of course to just play the bass line, but that's different to having an expectation of the instrument itself.

Remember that soloing is effectively also about developing a melodic and harmonic voice, that knowledge and appreciation is always going to help your bass lines, how your lines effect the harmony and chordal quality of a song etc. Practicing soloing is a great way to stretch the muscle, no-one is saying use it on every gig, or any gig, but it will only ever help you.

Si
[/quote]

It's called 'Bass' for reason, Si !

No, seriously, I have no issues with anything you've saying there.. I don't mean to imply that I think my own personal preferences about how I like to use the bass within a given musical setting and also, my preferences for the bass to play a more supportive role in what can loosely be described as 'rock & roll' (i.e. popular music from the mid 50's onwards) are better than anybody else's preferences - they're just the ones I have acquired over the years.

When I was younger, I was very much into bass players who had (as I saw it) a lot of technical ability and a distinctive style, e.g. Chris Squire, John Entwhistle, Bootsy Collins, Larry Graham etc. It's only as I've gotten older that my tastes have changed and perhaps mellowed..

Again, thinking about this more, I've come to the conclusion that my particular ambivalence towards players like VW, Marcus Miller etc is as much to do with they predominant style of music they make when they are the 'star of the show' so to speak. And by definition, that is usually music that is instrumental, quite jazz/funk/smooth jazz etc, which doesn't particulalry move me. I think the other reason I don't listen much to those players is that I prefer song-based, lyric-led music in the main.

Lastly, and particular referencing VW himself, if I had his ability or 'facility' as Jake (jakenewmanbass) refers to it, then I would probably be doing what he is doing now, and I suspect most of us would if we were able to .. He is living the dream, as they say!

[quote name='OutSpoon' timestamp='1472037755' post='3117869']
Music is subjective and we all have our favourites. Some people don't get Paul McCartney or Sting or Les Claypool or Flea or Steve Harris or Steve Lawson or whoever. There is no best or better. Some players are more technical, some are more knowledgeable but none of that has an effect on whether we connect to the music - or not. Some bass players really connect me to their music and some leave me cold. BUT I appreciate the art and ability that they all deliver. If you don't get Victor Wooten - I can't change your mind about that, in the same way that some people don't like broccoli. I can tell you all about the healthy properties and how it was made and cultivated. If you don't get it - you don't get it. But that's okay. Because plenty of people like broccoli and plenty of people like Victor. I studied with him at Music camp a couple of years ago, and met him a few times since - and he is a genuinely lovely, lovely human being. He is deeply, naturally musical and loves what he does. I don't connect to all his music, but I have my favourites. So, if you don't like it - that's cool. I know Victor would say the same thing. But you cannot deny that he is an incredible musician, and you cannot overlook the deep impact he has made on bass playing and you cannot dismiss the decades or practice, dedication and devotion that he has dedicated to the instrument.
[/quote]

+1 to all the above and very well said.. It's great to hear from many in this thread that VW is such an all round good egg as well as being an innovator; we need more of those people, not less of them and he is clearly inspiring a lot of other musicians around him which is a very good thing and I'm certainly not dismissing what he has dedicated to the instrument and his craft..

It's just that - for whatever reason - most of his musical output doesn't particularly speak to the inner depths of my musical being (if there are any)?? And perhaps that's my loss, but so far, I'm quite happy living my life without it..

By the way, I have to concur with my learned friend above that Rum & Raisin is the best flavour of ice-cream!!

[ambient]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1472131375' post='3118756']
Fair enough, I guess pure ambient soundscape stuff is the exception to the rule

Si
[/quote]

Lots of classical music too.

[bassninja]

I really Like the 'Tones stuff, solo stuff not so much. I generally appreciate his humility, educational approach and philosophical views. That Miller/Clarke/Wootten thing, though... w*nkery of the highest order.

Tones gigs at The Borderline and Shepherds Bush Empire were among the best I've been to. Saw him with brother Reggie, Anthony Wellington et al in Brighton in July and enjoyed it, but wasn't moved in the same way.

[M@23]

It is what it is. I wouldn't listen to it either, just as I don't listen to classical or death metal. But, fair play to a man that has made a hugely successful career playing bass. Seems stupid to ask questions of him. I don't know his music at all, other than seeing a YouTube video of him playing a Stevie tune. But, i did see a snippet of a Scott Divine video the other day where VW was saying that he loves to just groove but doesn't really get the offers as people know him as a soloist.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1471898891' post='3116856'] the emotional content they infuse their music with.[/quote]

You can either tune into a particular player or you cant, its not necessarily a reflection on them.

Lots of highly rated players leave me cold but I don't beat myself up over it. If other people like them its all good.

Edited August 27, 2016 by bassman7755

[ivansc]

[quote name='XB26354' timestamp='1471939414' post='3117032']
I'm mystified why being a nice person (or otherwise) has any bearing on anyone's ability or effect musically on others? I'm reliably informed some of the greatest and composers and musicians in history were absolute b*stards
[/quote]

In Vic's case, it is more of a "not only is he a monster bass player, but he *isn't* an arrogant bastard with it - in fact he really IS a nice guy.

Knew VW pretty well in the early flecktones days, when he was hanging out round Nashville with the rest of us working stiffs.
Polite, friendly, non-judgemental' think that covers it.

On the other hand if you only like bass-opotami who ARE shits, I can see why you would be mystified.

Seriously, he always was a great chap, as were pretty much all the Nashville working guys at the time.

[Barking Spiders]

Vic, Bill Dickins, Billy Sheehan, Richard Bona, Kai Eckhardt, Jeff Berlin, Gary Willis and many more jazzers/fusion dudes..all superb players but the music they make bores the tits off me. As with so-called hotties like Charlize Theron, Kate Beckinsale et al. everything is in the right place but my boat ain't being floated. A Michael Dempsey bassline off 'Sulk' or Pino's playing on 'No Parlez' say much more to me than any any hyper technical solo on a jazz fusion number

[ivansc]

Like your Forum name, but is it a north London football team, a band, or some obscure south American arachnid?

To the point: You are dead on the money. We all have our likes and dislikes and quite rightly so.
On the other hand, I suspect the OP's "ramming it down our throats" approach wasn't entirely serious....

Edited August 29, 2016 by ivansc

[Jazzjames]

He's not in my top 5, but his book really is worth a read. It's not about bass, about music generally and really is great.

[JamesTun]

This thread should fall into the category of every top 100 bass players ever, where the top 5 are all based on the band's popularity. Its all about preference and what you think is good and bad, that is applicable to playing as well as a band's sound.

The majority would rather see a Flea slap riff than an intricate solo because the audience isn't always a musician which can appreciate the skill of the player. Therefore, people will hate on that player saying he isn't great because they don't get what he's player. Wooten is an innovator, it doesn't matter if you like it at least you can understand and respect it for what it is.

[Barking Spiders]

ivansc - it's a type of tarantula found in Oz (I have two pet tarantulas but not selencosmia crassipes as it's under threat. I only keep rescued pets) but it's also slang for.. ahem...the action of the a***hole in fart mode

[jacko]

Am I the only one who finds his book a load of pretentious rubbish? (love his ensemble playing BTW but can't listen to anyone's bass noodling these days)