Disorganisation or stage fright?

[Bobo_Grimmer]

Let me start by saying I may go on a bit. If you get through my ramblings then I thank you for your time.

I haven't been active on the forum for a few years, life has been manic, but I wanted somewhere to release some thoughts with likeminded folk and maybe have a little bit of advice from someone wiser than I.

I'll start with a bit of back story to help things make sense...

I'm around 31 and been a bass player for not very long really, 12-15 years or so. I've never had lessons or learned anything too impressive but used my heart and ears to play what I feel. I started to get back into music after a bike accident and haven't looked back. I've been through a couple of bands, 2-3, and ended up in, what I feel is the best thing I've ever done.
Now we're not the biggest of 3 piece bands, heck we don't always get paid for some gigs or have large crowds, but we enjoy what we do and the people that see us are mostly blown away. (regular comments of 'bigging up' and 'wow what was amazing' etc)

We haven't a genre really, just jam and play whatever happens. I guess we're like Rush mixed with Tull and a bit of 90's grunge. That's nice for me as I tend not to be able to play the 'Normal' sounding bass parts and end up having a very unique style in some ways but still comparable to the likes of Geddy/Foxton. Quite aggressive, toppy, slightly dirty tone and have regular comments on how lovely my bass sounds.

I've been with these guys since 2006-ish. They are far better than I technically so I had a pretty steep learning curve to get up to speed with what they had already written. It took me almost 3 years to fully understand the quirks of the other two and how to really lock in with them.
We’ve never had decent recordings of our songs so to get a real feel for us is to see us live. We started recording 9 tracks over 2 years ago! And still haven’t finished them yet… plus we have another 30-35 tracks halfway finished plus a tone of jams that are worth saving or turning into songs.

The guitarist/singer and the drummer are brothers, 40 and 30ish of age respectively and have been playing their whole lives. Our drummer is amazing. His playing is incredible, steady, different and mind-blowing. I've seen him do things either while teaching, performing or jamming that some of the top greats would be blown away by. I feel very lucky to be able to play with the guy and sometimes feel my lack of understanding holds him back. Our guitarist and I have a very similar head space so his self-taught style is not like anything I've seen from other guitar players but offers us an understanding of the odd riffs, (Fripp/Claypool). He's a wonder to play with. Both interesting, technical yet simple and full all at once.

We jam every week and have done almost without fail, illness or a gig or Christmas of cause, but it's not often we'll play through and actually practice anything in particular. I mean there is the odd occasion obviously...

They've had their fair share of 'life' with mental breakdowns and drug issues etc, some of which are still prevalent but manageable... myself included. One member doesn't work, well does his minimum 16h a week or whatever it is and the other teaches for a living.
The third component of the make-up of the band is their Mum. She books our gigs and helps us promote as we're all not great or have little spare time so it's a great help and we probably wouldn't gig much if she wasn't around.

I have a wonderful wife and a house of my own, first step on the property ladder in the first part of the year and a full time job in charge of managing people building parts for aircraft. (It’s a lot of work let me tell you... bloody paperwork...^_^ anyone say 50-60 hours a week some months...)


[i][u]I've realised, reading back through, I'm going on a bit so I'll cut to what is relevant now...[/u][/i]


I've recently begun struggling with gigs. I've never been one for 'going out', I can't drink because of medical issues and being around people is hard for me. Playing shows hasn't really ever been an issue before. I can get up on a stage and play for anyone, blimey I've played to two people in a backstreet pub and thousands at festivals but being in amongst them... *shudder*. I am one of those people that can get to a gig, setup, sound check and then sit back stage or in my car until it's time to play and feel absolutely fine about it. Being at the bar or talking to people I don't cope with very well and never have.

We NEVER have a set ready for a gig. Ever! Normally we get to a place, find out how long we have to play, and then work out 'oh we haven't played that for a while' or let’s just jam that, before we go on stage.
Also we hardly ever know what gear we need or a time to be at said show or how long we are playing for or who we need to speak with or where exactly the show is! These are the most basic of needs for the muso to know in advance of any show imo. The main issue here is that we have gigs booked for us and then this information isn’t even asked for as far as I can tell. It feels like many of the locals on the music scene don’t like us in some way or another. Whether that be because of who they’re dealing with to book us or a lack of communication I don’t know. There is a feeling of awkwardness when interacting with the people in charge of the show, not just from my end and my insecurities. This may be a normal thing for any music scene…

I've been finding that now if I find out I have a gig tomorrow or in a month I begin to feel sick. I panic, over think and stress about it like I've never done before. The day of the gig comes and I feel even sicker. I shake once I arrive and can hardly speak fighting back my insides that are trying to escape my face. The whole experience isn't fun. Don't we all do this because we enjoy it? Leaving this band doesn't feel right though as the time invested and the jealousy that I would feel having some else have the amazing opportunity to play with such amazing musicians I don't think I could bare.

I am now at the point where the disorganisation and lack of communication is killing me. I feel ostracised and alone. This has all finally outweighed the 'fun' part of playing in a band, so much so that I haven't wanted to and haven't played in over a month. I haven't been to jams or any of the gigs that I mostly didn't even know about. It's feeling like my bass playing time has come to an end with a spare room full of thousands of hard earned pounds worth of basses, amps, recording gear, keyboards and synths that I can't bear to look at let alone touch. I don't know how to feel or what to do next. Lost in a head space that is both crippling and hard work for those around me that I love.
I have thought of maybe having a few lessons. Maybe talking to someone that's playing is far in advance of my own that could advise me in a positive direction? I don't know. Maybe I need a break... Maybe I have taken on too much in my life... Maybe I need to grow up and be a man...

[4stringslow]

Go with your feelings. You don't HAVE to play an instrument, in or out of a band. There's no law that once you're in a band that's it for life. Heck, some would argue that such a single focus is a complete waste of a life or a lack of imagination when there is a big wide world out there to explore. Sounds like you've been pretty successful with your playing, but times change, people change, so maybe it's time to move on and find something else to get passionate about? It wouldn't preclude you going back to music would it? Just follow your feelings, not the advice of others who can never really know what's going on in your life to make you feel this way.

[JTUK]

Get more organised as your current set up is making you ill. If that doesn't help, I don't know how or why you'd carry on.

[skankdelvar]

So much going on here, where to begin?

Do they know you're unhappy? And why you're unhappy? You say that you've not turned up for jams / gigs for a while so might they think you've left the band? First step is to have a sit down with them and explain what's bothering you. It may be fixable.

It seems that the disorganisation and lack of communication is getting to you. Try inserting yourself higher up the comms chain. Maybe liaise with the Mum that's booking the gigs. That way, you and she know what's going on.

You say that '[i]l[/i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][i]ocals on the music scene don’t like us in some way or another[/i]' and that [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]'[i]There is a feeling of awkwardness when interacting with the people in charge of the show[/i]'. The former is beyond the forum's scope to address. As for the latter well, IME, some promoters / landlords are a bit weird and lack interpersonal skills when dealing with bands. If you think that this awkwardness is solely down to the band's poor comms and possibly perceived lack of 'professionalism' then that's something that's beyond your ability to address, given you're not the one handling the bookings. [/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Just because you've got scads of gear laying around the house doesn't signify anything. We've most of us got a pile of stuff disproportionate to our gigging needs. Ignore this aspect.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Taking lessons won't solve your immediate band problem but are a good idea anyway. That said, lessons aren't a substitute for the fun of playing out and y[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]our technical abilities don't seem to be a problem for the talented guys you're currently working with.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]And maybe you [i]have[/i] got a lot going on in your life. New home, demanding job, etc. It would be reasonable to review your commitments and dump anything that's adding to the pressure rather than relieving it. No shame in that.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Frankly, I think you need to:[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]i) Confirm with them whether you're still in the band. You may already have been replaced in which case we've all wasted ten minutes of our lives we'll never have again.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]ii) If you're still in, talk things through with the other guys. [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Try to persuade them to be more organised about gig bookings; liaise with the Mum. If you can, remove the pressures that are the cause of your stage-fright. [/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]iii) If you remain unsatisfied with arrangements just join another band and overlap the two. Then pull out of the first band if you feel like it.

iv) Don't beat yourself up about this. It's not your fault. The combined stresses of home, job and a disorganised band is enough to give anyone the wobbly hump.

v) It's not - as you say - the end. Don't sell all your gear. But if you do, I'll take it off your hands for £50, OK?[/font][/color]

Edited July 17, 2016 by skankdelvar

[NoRhino]

Sorry to hear you feel how you do.
Ask your GP to put you in touch with a counsellor. I guarantee it will help.

[Muppet]

Give Mum a checklist of everything she needs to give a venue/promoter before booking a gig and another checklist of everything she needs to have found out. Anything that worries you - add it to the list. It'll calm you down and also make your band appear more professional. Oh, and practise more, jam less!

[ambient]

Have you ever considered that you've got Aspergers ?

It's something that I have, and can cause anxiety problems, which it sounds like you have.

Just get yourself organised, make notes and lists, anything to keep on top of things. Also speak to your bandmates about it, if they know, then they may do something to help.

[Mykesbass]

I'm going to agree with Skank on talking to the mum and you getting organised via her, but I feel differently on how to deal with you and them. I think, once you have got the organisation thing sorted (via Mum) you need to relax and accept how the other two are, as it sounds to me that this is what makes your musical outfit. If you start trying to regulate it you will lose the whole ethos of the jam. I know this will be an anathema to many on here, and it sounds like it is to other local bands, but you know what, s*d 'em, it sounds like you have something special there, and you should want to keep that.

[RhysP]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1468777637' post='3093259']
Have you ever considered that you've got Aspergers ?

It's something that I have, and can cause anxiety problems, which it sounds like you have.

[/quote]

I was thinking exactly the same thing.

A lot of what the OP wrote mirrored pretty much exactly my own experiences with playing in bands (and life in general) - loved the playing, never had any stage fright but all the other stuff terrified me. The bit between setting the gear up until it was time to play was hell on earth for me, and this got worse & worse as I got older & started to drink less (the drink was helping me cope to an extent but I just couldn't carry on like that).
Got to the point where I just had to face the fact that I wasn't cut out for gigging & socialising in general, but I couldn't work out why as it was something I should have loved doing.
Lots of other problems with extreme anxiety, depression & just not being able to cope in lots of 'normal' situations led to me losing my job & finally to being diagnosed (twice, by two different clinical psychologists) with Aspergers Syndrome earlier this year at the age of 51.
Finding out the reason for why I behave like I do has been a massively positive experience for me - I know it's a cliche but I really do feel like my life started again when I was diagnosed.

Edited July 17, 2016 by RhysP

[ambient]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1468779030' post='3093267']


I was thinking exactly the same thing.

A lot of what the OP wrote mirrored pretty much exactly my own experiences with playing in bands (and life in general) - loved the playing, never had any stage fright but all the other stuff terrified me. The bit between setting the gear up until it was time to play was hell on earth for me, and this got worse & worse as I got older & started to drink less (the drink was helping me cope to an extent but I just couldn't carry on like that).
Got to the point where I just had to face the fact that I wasn't cut out for gigging & socialising in general, but I couldn't work out why as it was something I should have loved doing.
Lots of other problems with extreme anxiety, depression & just not being able to cope in lots of 'normal' situations led to me losing my job & finally to being diagnosed (twice, by two different clinical psychologists) with Aspergers Syndrome earlier this year at the age of 51.
Finding out the reason for why I behave like I do has been a massively positive experience for me - I know it's a cliche but I really do feel like my life started again when I was diagnosed.
[/quote]

That's me. I used to do a lot of dep gigs for bands all around the country. The gigs were great, but the meeting and socialising was an absolutel nightmare for me. I have coping strategies now, but in the intervals and before gigs I just like to go and sit with a coffee and read a book or something.

My main current band are retired teachers, so fully understand my 'problem',

I have to be absolutely organised. I need set lists and charts/scores in advance. I put everything out the night before, and leave to the gig with plenty of time to spare.

[JonesTheCat]

[quote name='NoRhino' timestamp='1468776956' post='3093247']
Sorry to hear you feel how you do.
Ask your GP to put you in touch with a counsellor. I guarantee it will help.
[/quote]

This.

Without going in to too much detail I was suffering almost the exact symptoms you describe but surrounding my work at the time. Eventually saw a counsellor/therapist whatever you want to call it and I feel a whole world better for it.

[zero9]

There's nothing wrong with having a break from it all. You have a responsible job, and work hard. Playing should be fun, to enable you to switch off from your day job and other responsibilities. I was in a similar position and just burned myself out. I stopped gigging about 8 months ago, as much as that hurt me at the time, however it was the best thing I could've done. I have a room full of stuff, but I now use my stuff for fun. At 31-ish, you have plenty of time to play in several bands, before you hang up your instrument for good. I didn't start playing seriously until I was 37, I'm 50 now. I don't consider my playing days over yet.

Edited July 17, 2016 by zero9

[Roger2611]

I have to agree with much of the above, one observation not mentioned yet (sorry if it has been and I missed it) it is perfectly normal to feel tension to some degree in the run up to a gig, I am sure most, if not all, of us recognise that we are more irritable, short tempered, difficult etc. in the run up to gigs, maybe not to the same degree you are experiencing at the moment, but to some degree.

I get more irritable if I can't run through the set list on the day of a gig so doing every gig without an agreed set list would drive me potty and, without question, would see me seriously consider my future with the band as would working with musicians I couldn't have complete confidence in that they would turn up, with gear and keep themselves sober and professional throughout the gig, again that would see me hugely more tense before gigs.

It does sound from your original post that you may be nearing the time where you need to take that break, put down the bass for a couple of years, sell some gear, do other things, at some point you will pick it up again with renewed vigour.

I stopped playing for six years, I never picked up a bass or guitar for the whole time, I actually wrote a couple of purely electronic albums just because I felt like it, then one day I said to Mrs2611 "I really fancy playing in a band again" I got back into a decent covers band and have never looked back, I probably enjoy playing now more than I ever did when I was younger.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, I hope it sorts itself out for you

[Skybone]

It sounds like the disorganisation of the situation is getting to you more than "stage fright" by the sound of it.

Talk to the guitarist & drummer's Mum (the "Mum-ager"?), try and get more info, especially regarding set length, ask her a bunch of questions to ask the promoters (though be careful or you'll end up "volunteering" your backline).

Instead of rehearsing one week, maybe take the time to have a good talk with the guitarist & drummer about the band, and find out from them where & what they want to do. It sounds like you need to pre-arrange a set list a few weeks before a gig, and rehearse the set prior to the gig.

Mention that this "play it by ear" attitude is making you uneasy, but also mention that you really enjoy being a part of the band and that you enjoy your musical interaction with them.

Remember, like all relationships, good communication is key.

[Oopsdabassist]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1468779835' post='3093275']
The gigs were great, but the meeting and socialising was an absolute nightmare for me. but in the intervals and before gigs I just like to go and sit with a coffee and read a book or something.

I have to be absolutely organised. I need set lists in advance. I put everything out the night before, and leave to the gig with plenty of time to spare.
[/quote]

Sorry to paraphrase you Ambient, but these parts describe me too, I thought it was just me, maybe its a bassist thing, we like to be organised, but don't 'get' the socialising thing. If I didn't play in bands, I'd never go in a pub at all, and I hate being nagged to 'go out and get gigs' cos I really struggle being in pubs in that situation.

To the OP, as others have said, get more in the loop with the mum so you know what to expect, the actual band ethos sounds like fun, and challenging, which can be a good thing.

Good luck with whatever you choose fella.

[skankdelvar]

For me, the gigging and the associated hanging around in boozers talking complete bollocks are the best bits of all. Oh - and that golden moment when the landlord peels off some readies and tucks them in one's hot, sweaty mitt.

The worst bits are the tedious, micro-managed rehearsals, the agonising over band names, the dicking around with running orders and the inevitable hat tantrums. That's what gives me the yips.

[Oopsdabassist]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1468788461' post='3093364']
the inevitable hat tantrums.
[/quote]

I quite literally ROFL'ed at that!!!!

[Lozz196]

I like things to be organised, and to get to venues with plenty of time before the set. Unlike Friday where I left home at 2pm to pick up the singer/guitarist and we got to the venue at 7pm when we were due on stage at 7:25. Bit of a rush as traffic was pony all over on Fri afternoon. But the main thing was, as we are well rehearsed, none of that fazed me or the others. And this is the thing for me, so long as you are well rehearsed and know the material - be it in the set or not - then any little obstacles that get in the way, well that`s all they are, little. If everything is well organised prior to the gigs themselves, then go with the flow at the gigs. I`d be dreadful if we weren`t well rehearsed and the organisation in the band was poor.

[zbd1960]

I'm the kind of guy that usually ends up organising stuff and over the years I have realised that there are basically two camps: those who make-it-up as they go along, and those who plan. The odds are that if you are a member of one of those clans you don't really like the other clan's way of working.

There are exceptions: some people will be happy to have someone do the planning and will go with the decisions made. Personally, I dislike lack of organisation and planning and so I usually end up being involved in doing that. It is nice sometimes to turn up to an event and to have others do the organising.

The only way to find out and resolve this is to talk. They aren't going to understand what you need and why if you don't tell them. Equally, they need to tell you what they're OK with.

Good luck.

[bigjohn]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1468788461' post='3093364']
For me, the gigging and the associated hanging around in boozers talking complete bollocks are the best bits of all. Oh - and that golden moment when the landlord peels off some readies and tucks them in one's hot, sweaty mitt.

The worst bits are the tedious, micro-managed rehearsals, the agonising over band names, the dicking around with running orders and the inevitable hat tantrums. That's what gives me the yips.
[/quote]

Couldn't agree more. I'm in it for the beers. I love playing in a band and the thrill of making music, but the beers are the best bit.

Was it a good gig? My answer is always about the punters and if I enjoyed it. I enjoy rehearsing, but that has to be laid back and fun too. Which it is for me.

We played a wedding last weekend. That was okay, but I didn't enjoy the fuss around it. The money was nice but it was stressful and affected my performance somewhat, not because I was nervous per se, but just didn't feel comfortable. That was to with the organisation and things spiralling. Give me a bar gig any day.

Edited July 17, 2016 by bigjohn

[Geek99]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1468777637' post='3093259']
Have you ever considered that you've got Aspergers ?

It's something that I have, and can cause anxiety problems, which it sounds like you have.

Just get yourself organised, make notes and lists, anything to keep on top of things. Also speak to your bandmates about it, if they know, then they may do something to help.
[/quote]
Certainly possible, my kid has it

[tauzero]

I agree with Muppet about getting all the requirements listed and getting the answers well in advance of the gig, to reduce the stress around the organisation. With that anxiety removed, you may find everything else fades away, and if not, you'll still be better placed to analyse what is still causing you stress.