Billy Apple Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 [quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1465739718' post='3070624'] My point wasn't really about censorship as such, t'was more about one member asking another member to stop posting stuff, hence my 'back seat moderation' comment. [/quote] That is how I took your comment and think it is entirely valid. I like the fact that we have members with opinions and different points of view. If a member is repetitive, as long as it does not contravene our rules then it matters not (to me anyway). There is no rule stating a member has to rise to the posts of others. I take a dimmer view of members being baity toward a member with trenchant views than the views themselves. Members should be aware that the report function is a handy tool. The Mods do read reported posts and they are always discussed between us. We're not always in agreement, but there is always a result and I believe it's more often not the right one for the forum as a whole. But, if you start swearing... BLAMMO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbass Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Here ya go. a, Best drummer the worlds ever seen...check b, A nasty sad pathetic little man.....check. And thats what I think about this. If it was a quick 10 sec blowout...that's understandable and not so bad, but this type of paused protracted bullying says it all really. Horrendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 [quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1465718746' post='3070363'] Millenials don't like racism or homophobia either That's one way to put it Blue. Another would be that society has progressed quite a bit in the last half century in some areas. As stated previously in the thread, a more progressive and positive method works well when trying to get results from people. Of course, as with all things human nature, it's about balance. Criticism is essential, but there are positive ways to present it. [/quote] That makes sense, Times have changed. Me, I'm old school and prefer Buddy's method. Meaning, if I screw up, come at me like Buddy did. Don't treat me with kid gloves. If you do, I won't take it seriously. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 [quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1465717813' post='3070345'] I'm the same age as you. What's a millenial by the way? [/quote] I'm thinking you and I are "baby boomers".Millenials are probable folks that are between 20 & 30 years old, but I'm not completely sure. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushbo Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1465726683' post='3070469'] I don't hear a lot of coherent musical criticism in Buddy's rants, more non-specific impotent rage. More targeted criticism would make it clear exactly what parts of the set needed work, but I don't think that's what he was going for. To me the tape sounded like an insecure individual attempting to establish a pecking order, and nothing to do with the quality of the performances. He's not whipping them into shape, but beating them down for his own satisfaction. If more people are more inclined to question that kind of behaviour now, I'm happy about that. [/quote] Exactly this. Very nicely put. Rich's rant says more about his state of mind than the performance of the band. If you have to rule by fear and intimidation then you need to look at yourself, your self esteem and your insecurities very seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 [quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1465718746' post='3070363'] Millenials don't like racism or homophobia either [/quote] Neither do I. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydog Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 (edited) [QUOTE]blue said: ..if I screw up come at me like Buddy did. [/QUOTE]Not that they would, but if anybody actually did that on this forum, no doubt there would be sanctions - as in life. It breaks the code of acceptable behaviour, and in any circumstance abuse is is plain wrong. Don't take my word for it, that is the law, presumably on both sides of the pond. In private behaviour, presumably abuse would require express consent to be lawful, but IMO that is hardly normal..... By accounts, near the end of his life BRich asked to hear those tapes; apparently it was not an aspect of his life he wished to be remembered for nor was proud of. If I understand it, the essential proposition of this thread is that it is OK to verbally abuse people under certain circumstances. But actually it is unlawful AFAIK, for good reasons, and it is right that many people here seem to disagree IMO. LD Edited June 12, 2016 by luckydog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 I'm neither offended or inspired by Buddy in this clip. To me, negativity breeds negativity and Buddy's approach is simply an old-fashioned, out-dated way of communicating. If you're playing at "the highest level" you should be able to communicate EXACTLY what is wrong with what your band mates are doing and explain why you want them to alter it so they can see your justification. What's the point in spending hours practicing and refining your musical abilities and expanding your musical vocabulary if you can't communicate effectively with another musician to improve what you are producing together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Dean Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 I wonder if anyone in the audience thought they were crap ? Sound like he had issues . I helped do the PA for a Hero of mine & at sound check He stopped because the bass player made a slight mistake & shouted "Do you know what the F**k you're doing " I thought you're hardly Eric Clapton yourself I would have walked ...They say should never meet your heroes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHeart Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 If I got spoken to like that he would have been on his arse within 30 seconds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 (edited) [quote name='DarkHeart' timestamp='1465769313' post='3070902'] If I got spoken to like that he would have been on his arse within 30 seconds [/quote] The thing is that he was a karate black belt as well as being a pretty tough kid from Brooklyn to start with, so you might have struggled with that. Another reason why he could get away with acting like that, as well as being a renowned as being arguably the best drummer in the world (or at least the best known in his field) and a famous bandleader. Edited June 12, 2016 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stringslow Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1465750886' post='3070716'] I'm thinking you and I are "baby boomers".Millenials are probable folks that are between 20 & 30 years old, but I'm not completely sure. [/quote] Yes, about right: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) [quote name='luckydog' timestamp='1465752238' post='3070734'] If I understand it, the essential proposition of this thread is that it is OK to verbally abuse people under certain circumstances. But actually it is unlawful AFAIK, for good reasons, and it is right that many people here seem to disagree IMO.LD[/quote] No, not at all. That is not the proposition of this thread. The thread was merely to get an idea of what people think of Buddy's approach or response to a bad set. Me, I wouldn't employ Buddy's approach, but I don't personally mind that sort of motivation. I didn't find it verbally abusive. You have to kick my butt to get my attention and Buddy would have. Blue Edited June 13, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 [quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1465753711' post='3070754'] I wonder if anyone in the audience thought they were crap ? Sound like he had issues . I helped do the PA for a Hero of mine & at sound check He stopped because the bass player made a slight mistake & shouted "Do you know what the F**k you're doing " I thought you're hardly Eric Clapton yourself I would have walked ...They say should never meet your heroes [/quote] Buddy was already a living legend and played at a level that backed his bark. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 [quote name='skej21' timestamp='1465752404' post='3070735'] I'm neither offended or inspired by Buddy in this clip. To me, negativity breeds negativity and Buddy's approach is simply an old-fashioned, out-dated way of communicating. If you're playing at "the highest level" you should be able to communicate EXACTLY what is wrong with what your band mates are doing and explain why you want them to alter it so they can see your justification. What's the point in spending hours practicing and refining your musical abilities and expanding your musical vocabulary if you can't communicate effectively with another musician to improve what you are producing together? [/quote] I thought his communication was very effective. "Shape up or your out" Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Story has it that bandleader Tommy Dorsey said there were three 'sons of bitches': Buddy Rich, Frank Sinatra, and Adolf Hitler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) [quote name='blue' timestamp='1465839420' post='3071479'] I thought his communication was very effective. "Shape up or your out" Blue [/quote] What does 'shape up' mean? I'd much prefer a band leader with the musical intelligence to give specific feedback that is actionable... "Every time you play the seventh over that Cmaj9, it's killing the momentum of the sequence, play a third next time'... Even just "what you're playing in that bar isn't right, try something else next time and I'll tell you when I'm happy with it" etc etc IMO you shouldn't be able to criticise someone unless you can offer at LEAST one genuine solution to the perceived issue. Edited June 13, 2016 by skej21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1465841311' post='3071495'] Heavens to Murgatroyd man, have you not seen Grease? "Better shape up, 'cos I need a man" etc and so forth. [/quote] Cleared that right up! Thanks ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 [quote name='skej21' timestamp='1465841442' post='3071497'] Cleared that right up! Thanks ;-) [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1465843721' post='3071532'] It did remind me of something my Dad used to say which I truly didn't understand until I just looked it up: Shipshape and Bristol fashion. "The saying in today's form has been recorded as early as 1840 ("shipshape" alone being about 200 years older). The term developed most likely in view of the port of Bristol which had (before the Floating Harbour was constructed) a very high tidal range of 13 metres (43 ft), the second highest in the world. Ships moored in this area would be aground at low tide and because of their keels they would fall to one side, and if everything was not stowed away tidily, or tied down, the results were chaotic and cargo could be spoiled. Hence.... Adjective: shipshape and Bristol fashion: (chiefly nautical) Tidily tied down and secure. This service is provided gratis :-) [/quote] Are you telling us all that you didn't know this and had to look it up, seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydog Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) [QUOTE]skej21 said: I'd much prefer a band leader with the musical intelligence to give specific feedback that is actionable... "Every time you play the seventh over that Cmaj9, it's killing the momentum of the sequence, play a third next time'... Even just "what you're playing in that bar isn't right, try something else next time and I'll tell you when I'm happy with it" etc etc [/QUOTE] Yes, totally. LD Edited June 13, 2016 by luckydog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1465727240' post='3070475'] It's not a question of music, nor passion. [/quote] To me it is. As you know I have a different take on this than most. I side with Buddy. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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