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Lozz196

Heft - from heavy amp, or from lightweight amp & pedals?

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Re the various opinions on heft, just interested to see how people prefer to get it.

For myself, it`s the lightweight Class-D type amps, plus pedals - in my case Aguilar Tonehammer plus a Sansamp. I get the sound I want, in a small portable package, and considering my back/shoulder is pretty rubbish, even an Ampeg SVT3-PRO was too much for me, so it`s great to have the option of the sound I want, whilst being able to actually carry it.

Edited by Lozz196

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I like the idea of a lightweight amp that can do the same job as my TEs but TBH those I've tried haven't been up to the job. I thought the answer would have been my Mesa Walkabout but this sadly fell below my expectations - didn't even compare to the heft from the good ole English workhorses.

I'm sure that one day somebody'll build a Class D amp which can do the job, experience tells me it hasn't happened yet.

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The two heavy amps that lightweight alternatives generally have to live up to for me are a Hartke HA5500 and a Peavey VB-2. Are they generally classed as 'hefty' amps?

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You can't simulate it, IMO...

The question is how much you really have to have it and what amp (and cab) you can compromise with.

My best effort is to use a valve stage and class D back end and it is pretty nice but there is no kidding it will outgun
the big magnets, IMO so I have both,
Trad and D.

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[QUOTE] JTUK said:

You can't simulate it, IMO...[/QUOTE]

+1 no matter how much one might kid oneself or want it to be otherwise.......

Horses for courses

LD

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I think we need to be able to define 'heft' first of all.

e.g. no high pass filtering, lots of power on tap and no over the top compression/limiting? If so, that's why I feel like the Orange Terror Bass has 'heft'.

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[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1464524907' post='3060053']
I like the idea of a lightweight amp that can do the same job as my TEs but TBH those I've tried haven't been up to the job. I thought the answer would have been my Mesa Walkabout but this sadly fell below my expectations - didn't even compare to the heft from the good ole English workhorses.

I'm sure that one day somebody'll build a Class D amp which can do the job, experience tells me it hasn't happened yet.
[/quote]

This, for me. I don't always need 'heft' but, when I do, I use my Trace Elliot.

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[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1464527424' post='3060074']
Mesa Walkabout, HandBox R-400, Aggie 500... Heft, not heavy.
[/quote]

All of these are not heavy but much heavier than class d amps. Does that make them heavy? I say no. To some they will be though amazingly!

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Heft equals volume with extra volume that you feel not just hear.

H= Heavy
E= Equals
F= Fat
T= Tone

Edited by Twincam

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To me heft means the deep lows you feel in your chest cavity not the kind that muds up the sound and blurs your vision in an unpleasant way.
Love the tone of my Aguilar AG500 and it does have shed loads of low end available but turning up the bass too far tends to induce the latter type of low end unfortunately. I tend to keep the bass flat on the amp and add any extra lows I might need from the Big Bottom on my Aphex Aural Xciter which adds more of the desirably hefty type of low end.

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[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1464527424' post='3060074']
Mesa Walkabout, HandBox R-400, Aggie 500... Heft, not heavy.
[/quote]

Hmm, my Walkabout is a great amp for the size, but compared to my B-15, no comparison.

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[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1464546035' post='3060242']
Hmm, my Walkabout is a great amp for the size, but compared to my B-15, no comparison.
[/quote]

Of course - IMO, once you move away from all-tube, everything's a compromise.

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Class D isn't the problem. You check out modern PAs and you'll find a great majority running racks of class D amps. The problem lies with which class D amps are being used in these lightweight heads. These heads have to be made to a budget - and in order to compete with the competition, they can't be running lab gruppen or powersoft amps.

It's a compromise - and for most - the lure of a lightweight, affordable, giggable bass amp wins out.

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[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1464536239' post='3060166']
I think we need to be able to define 'heft' first of all.
[/quote]

I thought it was a joke....

Edited by ahpook

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As I stated on another thread, I'm reluctant to spend a fair wedge on a good class D amp, only to then
apparently need to spend more dosh on a pedal in order to make the thing work properly. YMMV.

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Where does this allusive heft come from?

I assumed it was the power amp and its ability, or lack of, to give an amps sound or tone a presence or weight. The criticism of class d power stages used in most bass heads, as I've understood things (bearing in mind I'm not an electronics engineer or similar) is they can't sustain the power to provide that weight and presence of the tone you want, especially in the lower frequencies.

Or is heft to do with the core tone of the preamp stage? If you stick a pedal in front of, or in the fx loop of, a head and you get heft, then surely it's not class d power amps that are the problem but the preamp stages of all these heads for many.

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That's what I was trying to say - if lack of heft is due to the power amp then a pedal wouldn't help. But if heft is just a nice dollop of bass boost in the preamp then it just comes down to preamp design rather than the power stage.

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I use a class d amp run flat and no pedals... I've no idea what heft is but this set up sounds deeper, punchier and more powerful than any I've had in the past... It is of course possible that my ears are not capable of detecting heft or any other perceived tonal advantage of a rig weighing the same as a family of hippos, but if it's a failing on my part I'm glad I have it. I couldn't be happier with my gear at the moment.

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Heft, from what I can gather, appears to be a term that is used to describe the TC or B&O power modules perceived lack of punch.

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[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1464593674' post='3060478']
I use a class d amp run flat and no pedals... I've no idea what heft is but this set up sounds deeper, punchier and more powerful than any I've had in the past... It is of course possible that my ears are not capable of detecting heft or any other perceived tonal advantage of a rig weighing the same as a family of hippos, but if it's a failing on my part I'm glad I have it. I couldn't be happier with my gear at the moment.
[/quote]
Which amp are you using?

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[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1464593477' post='3060476']
That's what I was trying to say - if lack of heft is due to the power amp then a pedal wouldn't help. But if heft is just a nice dollop of bass boost in the preamp then it just comes down to preamp design rather than the power stage.
[/quote]

And you can't fix that with a pedal if the preamp is HPFing before the poweramp.

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Heft, for me, is the quality of bass sound that hits you in the body, not something you get with your ears.

I paired my Trace Elliot head with two Barefaced Supercompact for the first time at a pub venue in a room upstairs. The place will take about 200 people (The Ship in Old Leigh, if anyone knows it). I wasn't going through the PA. A bass player I know who just happened to be standing at the back said as soon as I started to play he got that push in his guts and lamented selling his Trace Elliot head.

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