charic Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Seriously thinking of moving my rig on and moving to one of these three : From what I've seen : AxeFx (AX8) - Good allrounder does both guitar and bass well. Covers Amps and Effects Kemper - Excellent amp modelling but not a lot in the way of effects? Will probably still need pedals Line 6 Helix - The new kid on the block, seemingly very powerful and at a great pricepoint. Does both amps and effects but not sure how good it is at the amp side of the spectrum? I've tried to pick the 3 from the same sort of area pricewise as that's pretty much the budget. Ideally I want to cover guitar and bass as although my guitar skills are limited I want to use it at home for tracking and composition. I mostly play keys these days although will undoubtedly end up playing bass in more bands again at some point but my bass needs are pretty simple. Not looking for a "modellers don't do it for me" type thread I know they DO do it for me. I'm just curious as to peoples experiences of each and comparisons of one vs the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Helix. It's brilliant. And the UI is so far ahead of the others it makes the instruction manual redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairychris Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 FYI Positive Grid are releasing a hardware head this summer, just to add an extra option! https://www.positivegrid.com/bias-head/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 [quote name='hairychris' timestamp='1464097596' post='3056521'] FYI Positive Grid are releasing a hardware head this summer, just to add an extra option! [url="https://www.positivegrid.com/bias-head/"]https://www.positive....com/bias-head/[/url] [/quote] Spotted that but I'm not overly impressed with positive grid at the moment (I already use it at home) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1464095995' post='3056513'] Helix. It's brilliant. And the UI is so far ahead of the others it makes the instruction manual redundant. [/quote] The UI is a huge selling point for the helix, can it do the amp modelling aspect of the other two (ie. someone uploads a good mesa sample and everyone can use) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkent Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 I want a Kemper sooooo bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 [quote name='charic' timestamp='1464100290' post='3056548'] The UI is a huge selling point for the helix, can it do the amp modelling aspect of the other two (ie. someone uploads a good mesa sample and everyone can use) [/quote] Yes. The L6 site has thousands of user made patches. Anyone can up or download. You can search by artist, genre, or rating. Etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1464109929' post='3056638'] Yes. The L6 site has thousands of user made patches. Anyone can up or download. You can search by artist, genre, or rating. Etc. [/quote] And based on actual amps? Like the kemper or axe can do?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Ah sorry I thought you meant user made patches, not the Kemper sample thingy. Not in the Helix, but the software dudes haven't said "never" either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1464113919' post='3056681'] Ah sorry I thought you meant user made patches, not the Kemper sample thingy. Not in the Helix, but the software dudes haven't said "never" either. [/quote] Interesting, will need to see if I can find some demos etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1464095995' post='3056513'] Helix. It's brilliant. And the UI is so far ahead of the others it makes the instruction manual redundant. [/quote] Excuse my ignorance, but what's a UI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 [quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1464161237' post='3056971'] Excuse my ignorance, but what's a UI? [/quote] User Interface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Ah ok, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 The UI is really good. The modelling across the other products, Helix, Axe Fx, Kemper are all very good now and I think that is just personal preference, but excessive menu scrolling does my head in. The Helix screen shows you the signal path. You just use a joystick / button thing to pick a space, click it and then insert the fx / amp / cab / ir / whatever into that spot. Then there are 6 knobs on the bottom that become the controls for that individual item, so controls can be adjusted the old fashioned way. The footpedals are even touch sensitive so you can just touch them to show the controls for that individual item without actually turning that item on / off. Each footswitch can be assigned to do 8 things at once - from changing a drive parameter on an amp, to simply turning some things on while turning others off, or use as a momentary to speed up a rotary cab. The expression pedal can be used for wah or volume or to change any other parameter - or more than 1 at once. So you could increase fuzz at the same time as increasing reverb mix. Some users have added the Source Audio Reflex midi expression controller to be able to do extra things - like running 2 wah's at once, but in opposite directions (I don't know why either), or controlling LFO. It also has 4 loops so external pedals can be used and placed anywhere in the signal chain. The loops can either be used as simple Send and Return in the same place, or can be used to send, miss a block, then return so bypass other things at the same time. The outputs can be configured so, for example, the XLR have cab sims, but the 1/4 inch doesn't. It's just a hugely fun bit of kit that is dead easy to use. And it now has a decent PC / Mac editor too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1464167255' post='3057030'] It's just a hugely fun bit of kit that is dead easy to use. And it now has a decent PC / Mac editor too. [/quote] Ok, this is starting to get a bit too tempting I'm off to find some videos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Probably the best demo so far https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQUmE0TfC4I Nice comparison of regular amps and the unit too. And you can load after market IRs too. Personally I like the stock ones, but whatever floats your boat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic_Groove Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1464172510' post='3057127'] Probably the best demo so far [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQUmE0TfC4I"]https://www.youtube....h?v=KQUmE0TfC4I[/url] Nice comparison of regular amps and the unit too. And you can load after market IRs too. Personally I like the stock ones, but whatever floats your boat! [/quote] Can those flashing foot-switches be turned to static or is that some mode He has got it in?? Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 [quote name='Sonic_Groove' timestamp='1464175305' post='3057182'] Can those flashing foot-switches be turned to static or is that some mode He has got it in?? Brendan [/quote] That's probably camera frame rate issues. Usually none of them flash unless you set one to be a tap tempo. You can also pick the ring colour and whether it is off/on for the light or dim/bright. The scribble strip (the name of each switch) can be set as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Having used/recorded/psuedo-gigged all three: Have to say, I understand why so many use the Axe-fx for all patch change stuff, and the Kemper as an amp. (Warning: I'm not great at explaining things...) To[i] me[/i] the Kemper is the best amp in a box. For taking a rig you already own or a tone you have from whatever set up, and sucking/condensing it into the digital world. It's the one that to me, makes the most sense sonically, when plugging guitar/bass/pedals into it like I would whatever amp I have profiled. The Axe is awesome, not so much my thing, I really like the editor, effects are stellar, as are the amp models, it just doesn't feel the same to me though I know plenty who don't experience that, I think it's much more a tweaking thing. I love options, and I love tweaking, but as I really just try to rebuild a set up plus pedals I already use, that's likely why it's less my thing. Ability to route/split paths in the editor too means you can experiment with many less bass friendly things, but still get really good tones for bass with plenty of grunt, and weight. For total anything is possible ground up sounds, probably a better choice, also great for insane noises where 30 pedals all go on/off change settings. Plenty of acts using both of the above together, or one or tother live/in the studio so there isn't much in it beyond what you'd use it for IMHO, Helix, not used very much BUT was hugely impressed, and it's got some great backing on here so far. Amp-ness feels much much better than POD stuff as I'd wager Yamaha's VCM tech, and similar from the THR's has found it's way in, with new tech from the Line 6 guys combined. That said I did like the POD, and plenty of tones, just to an extent had a missing "something". I do like solid state, and digital, on guitar, and bass feel wise. I get stared at a lot saying that, hah! I think it's a really monster bit of kit, would love more time with it though. Fret put plenty of info in the Helix thread which I'm, sure you've seen, but I was super impressed, plus the fact you can run vocals through it too. I don't personally own any, (no need for what I do) though if I was going to, I'd aim for Helix probably, but it'd be close with the Kemper. If I owned a couple more guitar amps, I'd probably go for the Kemper, for my different sounds. If I wanted an everything solution for live, and studio use, I'd probably get an Axe. (Or hope on the lottery, and get all three...) though I will say, last time I was in studio we profiled all the guitar players amps, so they could stay home, and we recorded everything from the Kemper to save time/for ease of re-amping (not my choice but so few people will notice the difference. I'm just super pedantic) YMMV, but hope any of the above was useful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted May 27, 2016 Author Share Posted May 27, 2016 [quote name='AttitudeCastle' timestamp='1464352283' post='3058747'] ... [/quote] Thanks for the great reply, lots to think about here and how I want to proceed. My head says axe is the way forward but I understand the AX8 is more limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 I think the AX8 only has one path. No bass friendly split signals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted May 28, 2016 Author Share Posted May 28, 2016 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1464396181' post='3059246'] I think the AX8 only has one path. No bass friendly split signals. [/quote] I will investigate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 [quote name='charic' timestamp='1464418538' post='3059286'] I will investigate! [/quote] The Manual suggests it's possible; however I've just checked this quickly so please give it a read (around page 34) as I may have missed something as i'm on my phone, but it's there for reference. I didn't see the AX8 part in the OP as I'm a daft one, any my experience is with the Axe Gen 1, and the Ultra. http://www.fractalaudio.com/downloads/manuals/AX8/AX8-Owners-Manual.pdf The only limitations would be processing power for wackier sounds. Very common for people to run a split output with these things, L/R one side with Cab sim, one without for FOH/Monitor cab or similar. For most bass stuff simple splits like Clean + dirty on separate channels, or paths with it's own EQ, then recombined etc it should chew through no bother. On guitar I like split signals with 2 maybe 3 amps at once + reverb/delay (though I use pedals for all that), as I'm one of [i]those[/i] people (we're the worst. But we're not sorry ) for low gain plus high game type thing. Sorry to clog the thread, haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 Been chatting with a few people, looks like the ax8 can run 4 parallel paths... think this one is leading the race at the moment for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I wonder if there is confusion between amps and FX. http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/guitars/fractal-ax8-635766 The review says only 1 amp block - I wonder if it's 1 amp at a time, but parallel on FX? Amps need much more DSP than effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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