Bad drummers - how do you deal with it?

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='project_c' timestamp='1463868474' post='3054696']
yeah it makes sense! That sounds awful.
Another weird thing with one of these drummers was that he could play complex poly-rhytmic latin parts and solos flawlessly, but when it came to straight ahead swing feel on a blues tune, BAM - all over the shop.
[/quote]

Playing simpler parts with good time is always harder than with a busy part on any instrument because when theres less physical motion involved your more reliant on your internal clock.

[Muzz]

If we have a dep whose timing's shaky and doesn't respond to visual cues (a bit of foot stomping or head-nodding), then there's a 'change of plan' suggested, involving a pair of headphones and a click track for the rest of the set...

They don't get a second call...

[Rich]

Walk away from the drummer yes, but not the band unless they're all poor or gits.
For an indication of how much difference can be made to a band's dynamic by having a really good drummer as opposed to an average/poor one, compare the first two Marillion albums.

[BottomE]

Good drummer is like GOLD. I'm lucky in a couple of bands i work with great drummers and in these instances it pulls the whole thing together. However, in my main band hes a lovely guy but really inconsistent and "limited". Trouble is hes reliable and not bad enough for punters to notice - we get a lot of work and everyone likes him. Real dilemma. We play a lot of funky soul stuff and hes just not that type of guy. Whenever we get a dep the band is elevated to a new level and we are all conscious of this but after 9 years together and having tried everything to assist him he aint gonna change.

[luckydog]

+1 don't do it. If situation arises, it's best for bass to use 'guitar time' and leave a sloppy drummer to it. It's already a hopeless situation though, so whatcanyoudo - not a lot really, and at least the thing that stands out will be drums ?

LD

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 22, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Phil Starr]

You don't say if this is a serious band or just a bunch of mates jamming. If it's a serious band then you probably want out. If it's mates having fun then if the drummer is keen to improve then it's up to you whether you want to help him/them along. The only way the drummer will improve is by practice, so you need to find out I he is up for that.

[JTUK]

You turn the gig down...

[project_c]

Just to clarify these guys are part of a couple of larger groups that I occasionally play with, it's not my regular band so I have no real authority there, the only thing I can really do is either find a way to get them to play better, but the discussion, attempted eye contact and obvious 8th note bass playing didn't work, so the only other suggestons I have left to try are the click track, or recording and subsequent discussion.. or I just walk away and don't play with them any more.

I'm already walking away from another band because of other drummer-related issues, this is a jazz band with a drummer who plays very well, but like he's playing for Slayer in a Brazilian stadium. I don't mind a loud drummer in any other context but for jazz it drives me mental, pounding the living sh!te out of a drumkit in a room full of acoustic instruments trying to be subtle is just stupid. He's probably the most technically accomplished drummer I've played with, but I can't stand to listen to any more of his nonsense..

Tough to find a good drummer.

[JTUK]

If these people don't see the issue, that would be quite a red flag to me.

The idea is to make people sound good and no one helps the bigger cause glossing over fundementals like
poor time, no groove and no ears for the gig.

Edited May 22, 2016 by JTUK

[spectoremg]

You don't have to wait long on BC for a drummer thread to come along!
Simple: life's too short for bad drummers, walk or get the rest of the band to make him walk.
My pet hate is the sneaky ones; fairly well behaved at rehearsals but as soon as you're gigging it's Keith Moon time!
Anyone for a Macca thread?

[Chaos Daveo]

Depends on circumstances, good drummers are as rare as rocking horse sh*t.Video everything on even a basic smart phone, if a drummer struggles work with him. I'm of the belief of the more time you invest in eachother the better you all get.im lucky I've played with mostly amazing people but everyone can get better, there's a lot to be said for drumming and bass player only jams, those guitarist types can be distracting..

[interpol52]

In theory you turn the gig down, but sometimes a drummer reveals himself to be bad over time. Inconsistencies in timing or beats from one week to the next can't be detected in an audition.

That said, I've joined a band with a so-so drummer thinking "it will be ok, he will get better" and learned my lesson the hard way.

Its not always obvious in an audition but after a couple of rehearsals its usually enough to know whether to walk or not.

[TimR]

I played with a terrible drummer for years. It was hard work holding them back all the time and trying to provide some kind of groove.

One gig I just let them go on one song. We just got faster and faster. Was horrible. The singer had a right go at him at the end of the song.

It made no difference and I left.

There are tons of band out there playing well. It's very rare to find a perfect drummer, we're all human, but there are plenty of drummers who are not bad.

[JTUK]

[quote name='interpol52' timestamp='1463937007' post='3055139']
In theory you turn the gig down, but sometimes a drummer reveals himself to be bad over time. Inconsistencies in timing or beats from one week to the next can't be detected in an audition.

That said, I've joined a band with a so-so drummer thinking "it will be ok, he will get better" and learned my lesson the hard way.

Its not always obvious in an audition but after a couple of rehearsals its usually enough to know whether to walk or not.
[/quote]

Bad time is always obvious and therefore it is a basic deal breaker, IMO.
If they can't play to time or tempo they aren't going offer anything else musically.

[Ceebass]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1463926985' post='3055023']
The idea is to make people sound good and no one helps the bigger cause glossing over fundementals like
poor time, no groove and no ears for the gig.
[/quote]

+ 1 for this.
I've played with loads of drummers who play their best fill at the end of every 8 bars, only to rush/wreck the tempo & confuse singers/ horns or whoever. Or guys not knowing or articulating the structure of a tune

Playing with a good drummer is truly a beautiful thing!

[Dad3353]

No bad, or poor, drummer becomes good overnight. It's in the nature of the instrument, maybe more than some others. It's a long, arduous and for quite a while, unrewarding path. The sooner one treads it, the sooner one progresses, but the road is long. Some pick it up sooner than others, of course, but the number of 'natural' drummers is homeopathically low.

[4stringslow]

[quote name='Ceebass' timestamp='1463946186' post='3055259']
I've played with loads of drummers who play their best fill at the end of every 8 bars, only to rush/wreck the tempo & confuse singers/ horns or whoever. Or guys not knowing or articulating the structure of a tune ��

Playing with a good drummer is truly a beautiful thing!
[/quote]

I'd call this a lack of musicality - the ability to hold a beat but a complete lack of awareness of the song structure, no appreciation of dynamics, playing fills at inappropriate or apparently random places etc, almost as if they just 'zone out' and go into some form of autopilot. In short, not serving the song.

I put it down to boredom. Just keeping a solid, steady beat with no frills is sometimes all that's needed, yet many drummers seem unable to do this and insist on ever more raucous fills as if it's a good thing - thrash it and bash it!

Arrgh!

[interpol52]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1463943159' post='3055230']
Bad time is always obvious and therefore it is a basic deal breaker, IMO.
If they can't play to time or tempo they aren't going offer anything else musically.
[/quote]

I meant overall, playing a song slightly slower/faster or differently from one week to the next. Speeding up or slowing down within the song is obvious. I have timing like a metronome, I guessing you do too after reading your posts on here.

Through experience I agree with you about the drummer issues being a deal breaker. A bad drummer always reminds me of when my batteries were just starting to go on my Walkman in the 80's, that odd kind of uneasy feeling when the music is just slipping a bit!

Edited May 22, 2016 by interpol52

[tonewheels]

I've been pretty lucky with drummers over the last 45 years of playing. Didn't really encounter bad timing until about 10 years ago and it was really weird. Halfway through the first tune I just thought "I've forgotten how to play bass". A few tunes in and the penny dropped. Far too stressful to play with that sort of drummer. Never again

[zbd1960]

I play various instruments in varous sized orchestras/bands. With amateur musicians, timing is often an issue. Common errors include speeding up when it gets louder / more exciting / goes up in pitch, slowing down as it gets quieter or down in pitch. For people new or inexperienced with ensemble playing, it has to be worked on. A common issue is people not listening to what others are doing and I am sure this is a big clue to the issue - listening to what the rest of the band is doing. I currently lead a sax choir of 7 or 8 players. They mostly have about 3 or 4 years' experinece, so relative novices, and this is their first experience playing in an enemble. Playing together in a group for the first time presents a lot of challenges.

Short of bringing in a tutor to a rehearsal to work on timing, the only option is to do things like record a rehearsal or work with a click track to see if matters improve.

[TrevorR]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1463867924' post='3054693']

BOOM-TACK, BOOM BOOM TACK, BOOM TACK, BOOM BOOM TACK

would become

BOOM BOOM TACK, TACK BOOM TACK, BOOM TACK, BOOM TACK BOOM TACK

Anyways, we sacked him.

(Hopefully the BOOM TACK makes sense! )
[/quote]

Just got this going round in my head now...

http://youtu.be/3bdKLSF8QO0

[AustinArto]

I would move on. A band is only ever as good as its drummer.

[SpondonBassed]

Ba dap bap - gish

Edited May 23, 2016 by SpondonBassed

[CamdenRob]

I seem to have got lucky these last few years as the drummer in my new project is just as good as the drummer in my previous one...

I've been fortunate enough to work with strong band leaders who put their everything into the music, and who wouldn't put up with anyone sub-standard.

It all comes down to your enjoyment of it (unless it's a gig you need the money from). If it's no fun then pack it in plenty of other bands out there looking for a bass player... especially one that can play in time...

Edited May 23, 2016 by CamdenRob