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Kex

Have we all become wimps or is it a sign of an ageing population

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[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1463225800' post='3049706']
One thing that occurred to me is that it's harder to drive and park in cities than it would have been 40 years ago - there are more vehicles on the road and parking is heavily regulated. Also, relatively few people have lock-up type spaces to store their gear. If I could always park a van outside the venue and had a ground-floor space that all the bands gear was stored in, I wouldn't think twice about using stuff that was large and heavy if it did a better job. Keeping my gear in my flat and having to contend with city-centre parking, lighter gear makes a lot more sense for most gigs.
[/quote]

I think this has a lot to do with it - schlepping a 1x15 combo to gigs on the London transport network, with a bass slung over one shoulder, was a semi-regular experience from my early 20s that I'll be glad not to repeat!

Also it seems increasingly commonplace for venues to try and control as much as possible through FOH. Whether this is for better or worse is a very multidimensional debate, but it does render the old-school giant-head-and-stacked-4x12s a bit redundant if it's just going to be a glorified stage monitor that the sound engineer won't let you crank any higher than '1.'

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[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1463225800' post='3049706']
One thing that occurred to me is that it's harder to drive and park in cities than it would have been 40 years ago - there are more vehicles on the road and parking is heavily regulated.
[/quote]

A very good point, and the main reason why I'm always downsizing. I'm currently doing lots of London gigs and it's pretty much impossible to park anywhere near a venue, even in the evenings or at weekends. Even on the rare occasion that it is possible, the load-in will be up or down flights of stairs, or difficult in some other way. Being able to walk a fair distance with bass in one hand and rig in the other and set up in less than a minute is a Godsend for me. If I was still using the gear I was using 30 years ago gigging would be impossible.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1463224569' post='3049691']
The guys at Bergantino and Barefaced are now producing cabs that sound far better than any cab I used in the previous 40 years and you can lift them without a hoist. Believe me it's a great time to be bass player, especially an old one!!
[/quote]

+1 It's not just that lightweight cabs are 'good considering their size', they're good by any standard!

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I've sort of gone the other way .

Had my little Eden WT400 for 15 yrs , and at the time it was a lightweight ; though some now would say no .

I used as Eden 410XLT for 15 yrs , and skirted with NEO Epifani 410 and 610 , and gone back to the Eden as love the sound of it .

Just bought a Crest CA9 this week , to go with an Eden pre amp . The sound is awesome , and the Crest , frankly , is not as heavy to carry as it's made out to be .

The Eden cab is heavier at 3am , but I look at it like this - I play it for 3 hrs , and carry it for 3 mins .

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[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1463212601' post='3049512']Go and try and lift up a professional full range B&W studio monitor, or even a high end home hifi, its massively heavy and there is a reason for that.
[/quote]There is, that being that heavy minimally braced or unbraced construction is much less expensive than well braced lightweight construction. If the speaker isn't going to be moved from place to place on a weekly, or even daily, basis then weight isn't an issue. It may not be if you're young and dumb with more muscle mass than grey matter. But as you get older most of us realize that schlepping less weight is its own reward.

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[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1463219599' post='3049613']


Based on what evidence!? Why?

Are we talking modern classical guitars? Modern acoustic guitars in general? All modern guitars?
[/quote]
I must get round to asking him sometime. He's talking about acoustic instruments. It surprised me. It may be a matter of his personal preference about feel, tbh I don't know.

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[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1463219476' post='3049610']

Heavy stuff is heavy because of the technical and cost limitations of the day, not because its somehow better purely by being heavy.
[/quote]

Have you told that to Mesa Boogie, Ampeg, Orange et al? Not that anyone buys that old crap now :-)

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[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1463232774' post='3049784']


Have you told that to Mesa Boogie, Ampeg, Orange et al? Not that anyone buys that old crap now :-)
[/quote]

Does he not mean that the older stuff was heavier than the newer stuff even of the same technology. As valve and transistor amps these days are lighter and more powerful than days gone by.

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Mesa, Ampeg and Orange are building cabs to a price point. As far as volume and tone are concerned, there is no merit in heavy cabs, but it is cheaper to build big heavy cabs and more expensive to build light well braced cabs.

These manufacturers all sell light weight cabs and there will be a tipping point where they will stop making heavy cabs completely.

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Every time I've ever had a lightweight rig I've ended up doing many more trips to the van and back carrying drums and hardware so a heavy rig is a must for me

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Guest bassman7755

[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1463232774' post='3049784']
Have you told that to Mesa Boogie, Ampeg, Orange et al? Not that anyone buys that old crap now :-)
[/quote]

3 brands that are pretty much at the bottom of my wish list.

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I can't comment on the 70s but for me and I think many others, especially Londoners it's not so much about the weight but about size, and the availability of space. Not just at home, but in our cars, in our cities and in the places we play. I've downsized everything.

Replacing a large amp with a tiny one means I free up about half a room in my house. Makes a big difference. I drive a smaller car, I get public transport, I play in small spaces, giant amps made for an American lifestyle don't fit into the London way of things.

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[quote name='project_c' timestamp='1463238630' post='3049858']
I can't comment on the 70s but for me and I think many others, especially Londoners it's not so much about the weight but about size, and the availability of space. Not just at home, but in our cars, in our cities and in the places we play. I've downsized everything.
[/quote]

+1 Even some of the better-known London venues are surprisingly cramped, have small stages and no dressing room, nothing. Frequently there isn't even enough room to put down a hard case and open it. Which is why I use a gig bag.

Edited by discreet

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[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1463232774' post='3049784']
Have you told that to Mesa Boogie, Ampeg, Orange et al? Not that anyone buys that old crap now :-)
[/quote]
I wouldn't buy it, but I suppose weight is a feature of some equipment. Like all features some may like the item for that feature. Others won't.

Isn't this thread similar in nature to one on a petrol-heads' site bemoaning that some folk want to know the MPG before they buy a car? Or if you don't like that one, maybe moaning about some folk not liking non-metallic paint. You like it, I might not. Vive la difference, I say.

Good luck with your Ampeg, Orange et al. You like it, that's great. When you want a hand lifting your gear out, don't expect me at the stage door, but I wish you well.

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[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1463239996' post='3049870']
Isn't this thread similar in nature to one on a petrol-heads' site bemoaning that some folk want to know the MPG before they buy a car?
[/quote]

I'd want to know the fuel consumption of a car before I bought it! Though TV car adverts never tell you that or indeed give any specifications at all. They seem to major on the fact that their cars are good for driving in remote mountain areas where you never see another vehicle from one month to the next and are never involved in a traffic jam. Or that the car is suitable for young people because it's available in primary colours.

You'd almost imagine people buy cars on a whim without thinking, wouldn't you?

Edited by discreet

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[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1463239996' post='3049870']
When you want a hand lifting your gear out, don't expect me at the stage door...
[/quote]
Every band I've played in, and it's been 30 years now since I started gigging, we've all helped each other with the lift in & out of the venue and the setup of the gear. My cabs are a one man lift now, but when I arrive the others still come & carry some of my stuff & likewise me for the others. In the past, I've had a hand with the heavy TE combos and the likes.

I do think it's the BC'ers that are obsessed with the weight of gear from guitars, amps & cabs. Other players I know that haven't even heard of BC don't give it a second thought & most seem content with the gear they use. For me, my amp's still heavy, cabs not so much & bass is fairly light. However, it's a bit like the glass of water story.....

[size=1]Small print: I apologise to those that carry their gear on public transport, guess you guys just didn't gig in the olden days.[/size]

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Interesting - in the olden days as late teenager / 20yo I used a 100W valve head and 2, 4x12 cabs. Heavy, man! No back problems.

Started playing again when I was 45 years old and used an Ampeg 100W valve head and 4x10 cab. Heavy, man and back problems started.

One year ago at the age of 65 I sold the Ampeg rig and went BareFaced Retro 210 and TB500. Wimp stuff but better sound, back problems reduced dramatically.

Yesterday I used my old Elgen100W valve head with the Retro 210. One bit heavy, one bit light. Semi wimp rig but sounded friggin fantastic, Back problem was noticeable.

I have now accepted I'm old and I will use a lightweight cab whether people think I'm a wimp or not. :P

...and I may wear slippers for the next gig, too.

Edited by Jazzneck

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1463240524' post='3049876']
You'd almost imagine people buy cars on a whim without thinking, wouldn't you?
[/quote]

I have people to do that and I can honestly say I never asked how many MPG my car does to the gallon befoe buying it, though I do know it has 12 cylinders two turbo chargers and is limited to 200mph :-)

Edited by Kex

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I agree..... weight isn't really a factor for a lot of bass players and they've never heard of BC.
IME, I'd say out of 10-15 bass players aquaintences, 2 know BC... and a couple will use MB
as their lightweight option. The one or two who are gear heads, for want of a better term,
have done with NEO and your Vandekleys etc etc and back with Glockenklang for their best ever.

If you have a fitness issue, the light weight becomes THE criteria first and foremost.

For me, I have a light weight option but the full beans rig is heavy tranformers and ceramic.
That is just the way it is. If people are happy with their choices, as are the people they play with..fine.

My best option does not happen to be NEO or Class D, as it happens and I think sound is a big thing
in my gigs.

I knew this thread would be fun..:lol:

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[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1463241840' post='3049890']
I have people to do that and I can honestly say I never asked how many MPG my car does to the gallon befoe buying it, though I do know it has 12 cylinders two turbo chargers and is limited to 200mph :-)
[/quote]

As long as it has a limiter it must be environmentally sound, so that's all right, then. :rolleyes:

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1463242052' post='3049893']
As long as it has a limiter it must be environmentally sound, so that's all right, then. :rolleyes:
[/quote]

Did i mention the Panda skin headlining :P

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[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1463242172' post='3049895']
Did i mention the Panda skin headlining :P
[/quote]

Obviously it can't be real Panda skin, so you do the right thing yet still remain fashionable. Nice!

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[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1463242042' post='3049892']
Weight isn't really a factor for a lot of bass players and they've never heard of BC.
[/quote]

1. How do you know weight isn't a factor for a lot of bass players?
2. How do you know a lot of bass players have never heard of BC?
3. Even if 1. and 2. are true, what possible bearing would it have on this thread?

Edited by discreet

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