Does class T have heft?

[Twincam]

As the title I need to know if class t has the "Heft!"
Bought an Aguilar ag500sc sounds fantastic, not used it in anger just yet but already love it's tone.
But in the basschat spirit I thought I should mention heft a few times and throw in class T to the ss, valve, class d debate.

[Passinwind]

Class T is essentially just ad-speak for a Tripath chip based Class D amp.

IME various amp classes don't generally have specific characteristics like "heft" (whatever that means), although we may find that certain ones with a lot of commonality in design tend to lend themselves to our perceiving and/or measuring things that way. I've never heard anyone dismiss a Crown K2 as lacking heft, for instance.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Passinwind

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Passinwind' timestamp='1461357242' post='3034092']
Class T is essentially just ad-speak for a Tripath chip based Class D amp.

IME various amp classes don't generally have specific characteristics like "heft" (whatever that means), although we may find that certain ones with a lot of commonality in design tend to lend themselves to our perceiving and/or measuring things that way. I've never heard anyone dismiss a Crown K2 as lacking heft, for instance.
[/quote]

I'm not sure the component/spec of top quality PA gear is the same ball park as bass amps.

[Passinwind]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1461358785' post='3034104']
I'm not sure the component/spec of top quality PA gear is the same ball park as bass amps.
[/quote]

The design goals are often clearly different, for sure.Thus my comment about discussing specific implementations, not class of operation...

[Dad3353]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1461358785' post='3034104']
I'm not sure the component/spec of top quality PA gear is the same ball park as bass amps.
[/quote]

Playing bass through a DI into the PA, the public could well be hearing the 'heft' of a Crown K2, whatever is used on stage.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1461359776' post='3034111']
Playing bass through a DI into the PA, the public could well be hearing the 'heft' of a Crown K2, whatever is used on stage.
[/quote]

Absolutely... so long as you are going DI into a PA with Crown K"'s.

However, plenty of bassists using backline as FOH and not going through Pro PA.

[JPJ]

I own an Aguilar AG500SC and I can assure you that when coupled with a suitable speaker cabinet(s) it is not found lacking in the 'heft' department.

We have had this debate on here several times and the conclusion always seems to be that the perceived lack of heft in a class D amp is not down to the amp topography, but down to the switch mode power supply they are often coupled with to achieve these ultra small form factor amps. Irrespective of the amplifier, the Aguilar has a proper iron transformer power supply which most accredit as being the source of the heft.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='JPJ' timestamp='1461361324' post='3034122']
I own an Aguilar AG500SC and I can assure you that when coupled with a suitable speaker cabinet(s) it is not found lacking in the 'heft' department.

We have had this debate on here several times and the conclusion always seems to be that the perceived lack of heft in a class D amp is not down to the amp topography, but down to the switch mode power supply they are often coupled with to achieve these ultra small form factor amps. Irrespective of the amplifier, the Aguilar has a proper iron transformer power supply which most accredit as being the source of the heft.
[/quote]

It isn't, it's down to current delivery. A powerful SMPS will far outperform a less potent transformer+smoothing caps supply. Big bass notes need high current and sustained high voltage without sag for much longer than most Class D modules are designed for.

[Twincam]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1461361734' post='3034128']


It isn't, it's down to current delivery. A powerful SMPS will far outperform a less potent transformer+smoothing caps supply. Big bass notes need high current and sustained high voltage without sag for much longer than most Class D modules are designed for.
[/quote]

What exactly do you mean?

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1461361982' post='3034131']
What exactly do you mean?
[/quote]

He means most Class D (bass) amps are... not as good as they could be.

[Painy]

Forgive me for quoting myself here but this is an extract from my review of my AG500 head into 2 DB112 cabs:

"Our lead player's fears that such a small rig might not deliver enough low end were soon allayed when I punched in the deep switch and he pooed himself a little bit."

[Twincam]

[quote name='Painy' timestamp='1461362823' post='3034137']
Forgive me for quoting myself here but this is an extract from my review of my AG500 head into 2 DB112 cabs:

"Our lead player's fears that such a small rig might not deliver enough low end were soon allayed when I punched in the deep switch and he pooed himself a little bit."
[/quote]

Haha!

[discreet]

[quote name='Painy' timestamp='1461362823' post='3034137']
"Our lead player's fears that such a small rig might not deliver enough low end were soon allayed when I punched in the deep switch and he pooed himself a little bit."
[/quote]

Ah, the 'brown note'.

[Painy]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1461364191' post='3034147']


Ah, the 'brown note'.
[/quote]

Well I'd have said more mustard than brown to be honest.....

[wateroftyne]

I really enjoyed the SC500 when I had it. It was no 'car radio' micro head - heft was noticeable by its presence.

[Roland Rock]

I always assumed that this amp was normal solid state, but I'm getting from the OP that it's actually some sort of Mr T powered class D, yet it has a big transformer. Can someone clarify please?

Edited April 23, 2016 by Roland Rock

[2elliot]

What a bargain that was.

Do the old school test...

Don't read anything on the Internet, plug in and spend some time with it a gig volume and if it sounds good to you keep it.

I have no idea what class T is, life is simpler that way.


Nice purchase.

[Chienmortbb]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1461358785' post='3034104'] I'm not sure the component/spec of top quality PA gear is the same ball park as bass amps. [/quote]If we ignore valve heads, the power stages of bass and PA amps are no different. If you include well designed valve amps the same this applies.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Chienmortbb

[chris_b]

Professional touring PA systems are all D Class these days.

[wateroftyne]

But are the the likes of KV are using the same car radio modules you find in bass amps? I suspect not...

[Beer of the Bass]

I would be surprised if anyone was using "car radio" modules in bass amps - can you show me an example of a maker who does? In-car audio stuff is built around the restrictions of running from a 12 volt battery supply. It would make little sense to use the same modules in AC powered equipment.

[wateroftyne]

Sorry - that's just me being mischievous based on what ICE stands for, and what one of the original goals of the module was. :-)

Anyway, until someone can confirm if the pro-audio guys are using the same generation and deployment of technology as the (for example) RH450, I remain to be convinced.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1461405503' post='3034340']
If we ignore valve heads, the power stages of bass and PA amps are no different.
[/quote]

It would be lovely to think that the design and components in a Pro PA power amp were exactly the same as those in an integrated bass amp... not sure that a power amp, whose sole purpose is just that (and costing several thousand £) will simply be a higher power 'identical' unit to those fitted to integrated pre/power bass amps where one of the primary factors on its design is price point!

BTW absolutely no criticism of the Aggie AG500, plenty positive responses here and I've not owned one... I've owned plenty other Class D amps but not this one!

[Twincam]

I've read when Aguilar designed the amp it was to eliminate the disadvantages of class D amps (of the time).

Actually the amp does have heft and to me it does sound and feel a lot nicer, hefty or whatever than other class d amps ive heard, played or owned. In fact it's the nicest amp I've played personally no matter what class I like it more than valve as it seems to react quicker.

Started the thread just to say Heft to be honest but it's generated some interesting comments.

Although one question I always ask is why has no class d amp been anywhere near as loud as my old 200w at 8 ohm trace Elliot combo and there supposedly three or so times more powerful heads.

[Dan Dare]

Not strictly accurate to talk of car stuff not being able to be used because it's only designed to run on 12v. With the exception of hardwired valve amps (which can have internal supply rails running at 500v dc - that's why you don't poke around inside them), solid state circuitry runs at very small voltages. The mains current is stepped right down. PCBs wouldn't tolerate mains voltages.