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bobpalt

New Trace Elliot combos and cabs dont always match!

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I bought a Trace Elliot 715x combo a few weeks ago, and it really is a super amp. However, I soon realized that to use it to its full potential, I needed to buy another cabinet, and after checking through their sales literature, chose the compact 2 x 10 cab, the 1028H. This is clearly shown stood on top of the 715x amp in the brochure.
The cab arrived the day before a gig, so I didnt really check it over, but all seemed well enough. On stage, I went to set up the combo and cab, and to the amusement of my fellow band members, found that the 2 x 10 cab was much deeper than the combo, and despite our best efforts to balance it on top, two of the feet overlapped at the back and it ended up pointing towards the ceiling!
The obvious solution was to put the 2 x 10 cab on the floor, and place the narrower combo with the 1 x 15" speaker on top. Physically, this worked fine, but I ended up with all of the percussive higher frequencies being lost at floor level on the stage, and me being blasted by the fifteen inch speaker at ear level. Not good.
I advised Peavey/Trace Elliot of the problem, and they seemed genuinely surprised. I was told, very pleasantly and politely, that I was the first person to spot this problem with non-matching sizes, and the picture in the brochure hadnt actually been taken with the cab on top of the combo, otherwise the problem would have been spotted, but had been produced by Photoshop merging two images!
I was then referred to Paul, the designer, who again was very helpful, and suggested bringing the combo over to Corby (a three or four hour drive each way) and he would take the amp section out and refix it in a 2 x 10 cabinet, and then presumably change my cab for a 15" version. I hope I understood what he meant!
The other solution was to unscrew two of the feet at the rear of the cab, and screw them in further forward, so at least the cab would balance on top of the combo. This I have done, and it now sits on top ok, although there is a substantial overhang at the back, which to be honest looks really naff. If anyone leans on the back, it could well topple over.
Although Trace/Peavey have been very responsive, I feel that I really need to draw other bass players to the error in the brochure, which also clearly says that pretty much any combination of cab, amp and combo is possible, which clearly is not the case. The new brochure when it comes out will be amended, but in the meantime, any ideas on what I should do? It looks like I have equipment from2 different product ranges, when I actually went to a lot of trouble and expense to get the best physical and sonic match as I could.

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Bloody hell! What an amazing story! Photoshop indeed ;-)

Just goes to show how even a company like Trace can make a cock up.

None of the 'solutions' offered really seem satisfactory either...

Maybe you could change the lot for some Ashdown gear ;-)

Oooops, what have I said?

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I'm not surprised or amazed and don't think it's really that shocking. The old Trace stuff was the same, as is the Ashdown stuff. The cabs are generally deeper for the bass response, combos are a compromise between portability and tone.

All the Trace cabs are deeper than their combos I'm afraid.

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I have my 1 x 15" Ashdown ABM combo *on top* of my 4 x 10" ABM bass cab.

It wouldn't work the other way round... but this set up doesn't seem a problem.

But if I had got the 2 x 10" Compact ABM cab it would sit on top of the combo.

Both the combos and the Compact cabs are the same depth, the full size cabs are deeper.

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I know that most cabs tend to be deeper than combos from the same manufacturer, but the thing that peeved me was that the Trace brochure clearly showed that it was possible to stack the cab on top of the combo, which would have made for a lovely, compact stack, but you can't! I thought because it was described as a compact cab, it was, in some way smaller than a normal 2 x 10?

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Hi Bob, I think if you are genuinely not happy you should change them both for seperate amp, 1x15" and 2x10" and see if Trace will not charge you for the extra cost as a good will gesture. Worth a try.

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[quote name='bobpalt' post='30395' date='Jul 11 2007, 06:56 PM']...but the thing that peeved me was that the Trace brochure clearly showed that it was possible to stack the cab on top of the combo, which would have made for a lovely, compact stack, but you can't! I thought because it was described as a compact cab, it was, in some way smaller than a normal 2 x 10?[/quote]
Fair point. I think it's just "compact" coz it's a 2x10 to be honest!!

IIRC the old Trace catalogues did similar silly things. Maybe they're put together by someone with no idea at all.

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My Hartke 2.5XL is deeper than the Hartke 115XL it sits on. It looks slightly funny but it's solid enough. I have a little bit hanging over the front and a little bit hanging over the back.

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According to the website specs, your overhang is 100mm. Stranger that they have gone to so much trouble to make the width of all the units the same though...

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My Hartke 210XL was shallower than the 410XL it sat on by about 5 inches. Made a handy shelf for bits and bobs during shows!

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[quote name='steve-soar' post='30400' date='Jul 11 2007, 07:29 PM']Hi Bob, I think if you are genuinely not happy you should change them both for seperate amp, 1x15" and 2x10" and see if Trace will not charge you for the extra cost as a good will gesture. Worth a try.[/quote]
Good idea! I might well try that and see how I go, thanks.

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basically if they have stated that it will work in their literature then they should uphold that in some way, clearly what they have sold you does not do what they have claimed it can do, brochures and their literature content have to be signed off by the company (trace in this case) before they can go to print, and as you are the first person to notice this or at least the first one to contact them (which i would find amazing) you should be in a good position to get a decent solution, which if i were you would be to push to switch the whole lot out for a 2x10 combo and 115 cab.
this is why i bought the ashdown 2x10 combo cos i then new it would sit on top of the 115 cab due to the differnt cab depths (also the 115 combo is not as wide as the cabs either which would look really funny)
hope they sort this for you considering how much the trace stuff costs.

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[quote name='lowhand_mike' post='30604' date='Jul 12 2007, 10:28 AM']this is why i bought the ashdown 2x10 combo cos i then new it would sit on top of the 115 cab due to the differnt cab depths (also the 115 combo is not as wide as the cabs either which would look really funny)
hope they sort this for you considering how much the trace stuff costs.[/quote]


your talking about the ashdown MAG range aren't you as the ABM are the same width??

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Hi Hooky, I'm using the ABMC115 575W MK1 with a ABM Mini 48 on top. They are the same depth but the 48 is about 130mm smaller width ways, sounds absolutely fantastic and is as solid as a rock.

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[quote name='steve-soar' post='30746' date='Jul 12 2007, 03:06 PM']Hi Hooky, I'm using the ABMC115 575W MK1 with a ABM Mini 48 on top. They are the same depth but the 48 is about 130mm smaller width ways, sounds absolutely fantastic and is as solid as a rock.[/quote]
Hi Hooky, BTW you'll be the first to know if I decide to sell the above, that's if you are still interested in any of it. It's a bit heavy you know. Cheers Steve.

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I stack my MAG210 vertically and have the shallower EB12 combo on top. I couldn't have it the other way round as i'd experience the same problem as bobpalt.

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Looks like there is to be a happy ending to my problem, and Trace Elliot are doing the decent thing.

Whilst they wouldnt agree to swapping the 715X and 2x10 cab for a seperate head, 1x15 and 2x10 cabs, they have agreed to build me a one off, 2x10 715 combo, and swap the 2x10 cab I have for a 1x15. This should be a brilliant solution, allowing the 2x10s to sit on top of the physically deeper 1x15 cab.

I did use my current set up at a gig last night, with the 2x10 on the floor, and it really didn't sound right at all, especially on a wobbly stage.

Thanks to the designer, Paul, at Trace Elliot for all his help, but of course, it should never have happened in the first place!

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[quote name='Merton' post='30367' date='Jul 11 2007, 12:38 PM']All the Trace cabs are deeper than their combos I'm afraid.[/quote]
As they should be. A cabinet's bass response is dictated more than any other factor by its size; the smaller the box, the less bass. The single most overriding reason why the vast majority of commercial cabs have performance well below what can be achieved is that visual esthetics and marketing concerns usually run roughshod over proper engineering. If engineers ruled the roost there would be no such thing as a 4x10 or a combo, as both concepts run totally counter to the notion of getting the best sound possible. In your case a larger box for the 15 and a smaller box for the 2x10 is a much better way to go than the other way around. OTOH, assuming the 2x10s are horizontally mounted to 'look right' you'll still be sacrificing utility for the sake of conventionality.

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[quote name='bobpalt' post='33243' date='Jul 17 2007, 08:01 PM']Looks like there is to be a happy ending to my problem, and Trace Elliot are doing the decent thing.

Whilst they wouldnt agree to swapping the 715X and 2x10 cab for a seperate head, 1x15 and 2x10 cabs, they have agreed to build me a one off, 2x10 715 combo, and swap the 2x10 cab I have for a 1x15. This should be a brilliant solution, allowing the 2x10s to sit on top of the physically deeper 1x15 cab.

I did use my current set up at a gig last night, with the 2x10 on the floor, and it really didn't sound right at all, especially on a wobbly stage.

Thanks to the designer, Paul, at Trace Elliot for all his help, but of course, it should never have happened in the first place![/quote]

That's jolly good of them! A totally unique Trace amp eh? B*st*rd!!

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[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='33269' date='Jul 17 2007, 08:43 PM']As they should be. A cabinet's bass response is dictated more than any other factor by its size; the smaller the box, the less bass. The single most overriding reason why the vast majority of commercial cabs have performance well below what can be achieved is that visual esthetics and marketing concerns usually run roughshod over proper engineering. If engineers ruled the roost there would be no such thing as a 4x10 or a combo, as both concepts run totally counter to the notion of getting the best sound possible. In your case a larger box for the 15 and a smaller box for the 2x10 is a much better way to go than the other way around. OTOH, assuming the 2x10s are horizontally mounted to 'look right' you'll still be sacrificing utility for the sake of conventionality.[/quote]

Any big box makers that aren't crazy expensive?


My TE combo is pretty shallow, it felt pretty odd when replacing a Peavey 18.

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[quote name='paul, the' post='33801' date='Jul 18 2007, 02:07 PM']Any big box makers that aren't crazy expensive?[/quote]
I can't say, the last time I bought a cab it was 1965, and to say the least I'm not in the market to buy another within this lifetime. At any rate, the single easiest way to improve on the performance of most cabs would be to simply make them bigger, and in the grand scheme of things it's also the least expensive way to make them better. But the actual cost of making an item is seldom the main determining factor in what it sells for. Perceived value is.

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[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='33840' date='Jul 18 2007, 08:29 PM']But the actual cost of making an item is seldom the main determining factor in what it sells for. Perceived value is.[/quote]

Exactly, so it can go either way.


How about the people that have bought cabs post-1965 :) - ?



*insert size related cliche*

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